Protestantism

» Brian Tubbs - Ravi Deconstructs Deconstructionism

Great clip from Ravi Zacharias who demolishes the notion of postmodernist deconstructionism, esp as it relates to language.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlwFL3mYK...

The extremist postmodern deconstruction of language (which we see so much of in academia today) would be laughable, were it not for the fact that people take it so seriously.

» pink101 - Ravi Deconstructs Deconstructionism

In response to Ravi Deconstructs Deconstructionism posted by BrianTubbs:

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The extremist postmodern deconstruction of language (which we see so much of in academia today) would be laughable, were it not for the fact that people take it so seriously.
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We could spend several posts discussing your claim; but, it would be far easier just to read the comments at this link: http://www.marxists.org/reference/subjec...
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The author's work is apparently what upsets Zacharias. It's a short read for anyone who wants to learn some truth about the subject rather than blather.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Knowledge and Fact

In response to Ravi Deconstructs Deconstructionism posted by pink101:

We absolutely MUST understand the distinction between KNOWLEDGE and FACTS. Facts constitute objective data or information. Knowledge refers to the POSSESSION of said data or information.

Fact - There is a person in the room next to mine.
Knowledge - When I realize that there is a person in the room next to mine

Postmodernists build their case around the issue of KNOWLEDGE - and they base their arguments on the difficulty and diversity of the various means of transmitting knowledge.

It's true, as postmoderns will tell us, that MODERNISM was often quite arrogant and made too many assumptions with respect to the transmission of and possession of knowledge. And postmodernism does very well when it deconstructs the process of transmitting information.

But...where postmodernism runs amok and becomes downright irrational and dangerous is when it begins to challenge the notion of data or fact itself.

Postmodernists are right to point out that language very strongly influences and determines our ability to possess knowledge - i.e., to grasp information. They are absolutely right about that. But...

They are terribly wrong when they begin to argue that facts themselves - that truth itself - are relative.

» Brian Tubbs - The Loss of Truth

Though Pink dismisses Ravi Zacharias as "blather" (see an earlier post), it's important for everyone following this thread to know that Ravi Zacharias is one of the most widely honored and esteemed Christian speakers in the WORLD today. He is a brilliant scholar and phenomenal lecturer on philosophy and religion.

Here's Part One of a great lecture he did on "The Loss of Truth." This lecture addresses many of the themes of this discussion thread. I highly recommend you watch it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQGKhsZHn...

» pink101 - Knowledge and Fact

In response to Knowledge and Fact posted by BrianTubbs:
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We absolutely MUST understand the distinction between KNOWLEDGE and FACTS.
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Perhaps you mean to challenge the idea that knowledge is on such shaky grounds these days?
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I think we can easily settle any questions we may have on this issue with this simple question, "How do you know any information you receive is legitimate or not?"
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And, remember, there was a time not so very long ago, when everyone was able to believe every bit of information they received; because, the grand narratives were there to prove it as legitimate or not. That isn't so anymore.
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It's not so much cynicism as it is common sense. We have learned that people observing the same event often have different beliefs of what it was that took place.
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It has been true here in these threads when participants misunderstand each other. That is~~precisely~~a result of what some postmodernists refer to as language games. You know that.
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None of whatever any postmodernists claims has any effect on the actuality of any truth other than what we humans might think of what we receive from sources of legitimacy. Postmodernist cannot change reality anymore than it has ever been able to be changed in prior ages. But, we can be objective about what we receive in contrast to what people were able to do in the past. And, this sets up a dichotomy between people that choose to stay in the past by believing stories out of the grand narratives and those people that choose to move into the future by questioning authority and seeking more reliable proof.
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Knowledge is power!
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We live in times when nations vie with nations for power. Will one nation share knowledge with another? Or, will knowledge be with held?
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These two questions can be applied to the situation with Iran as it seeks to gain knowledge regarding nuclear energy.
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Our president is claiming that Iran does not have the right to that knowledge as he believes they will misuse it.
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Shall we put our heads in the sand and kick against the barbs just because postmodernists point out discrepancies in our thinking?
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Huh? Shall we?
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We need to open our minds so we can develop strategies worthy of our humanity.
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Thomas Jefferson didn't just pop into existence. He was preceded by men like Hobbes, Locke, Montesquieu. Men who are important to our present condition. Jefferson was a strategist that put some exceptional ideas into motion. We need to open our minds up to the possibilities of the future. Hanging on to old stories is limiting to our potential growth. You KNOW that.
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-- posted by pink101

» pink101 - I Am Surprised

In response to Knowledge and Fact posted by pink101:

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I am surprised with myself that I am able to question my own beliefs so well.
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We sharpen our minds against the wheel of our relationships. I appreciate the contributions each participant makes. Thanks to each one.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Points of Agreement

In response to I Am Surprised posted by pink101:

First, I second what Pink says. I appreciate his contributions, Migisi's, and everyone else who has weighed in on this and other issues.

Second, to the extent that postmodernism has caused us to look at our narratives, means of transmitting knowledge, and/or cultural and geographical limitations, it is a GOOD thing. In my opinion, it has gone BEYOND that, but be that as it may, I want to point out where I agree it has been a force for good.

» Migisi - Knowledge and Fact

In response to Knowledge and Fact posted by pink101:
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And, this sets up a dichotomy between people that choose to stay in the past by believing stories out of the grand narratives and those people that choose to move into the future by questioning authority and seeking more reliable proof.
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When I was a child, my mother told me that if I touched or handled a nest-fallen baby Robin, mama Robin would smell my human scent on her baby and reject it. I'd be responsible for making the baby an orphan. I believed my mother. After all, she was an all-knowing adult in my eyes - the authority on everything. When older, I questioned whether ~all~ birds had well-developed olfactory senses. Did sparrows - doves - starlings - ducks? Could I handle those, but just not the Robin? My curiousity led me to scientific confirmation that those birds don't have a sense of smell - nor does the Robin. What was her motivation for passing on this generational myth? It was simple. She didn't want me bringing home nest-fallen baby birds.
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So, I learned to question 'authority' (parents, teachers, clerics, etc.) and their presumption of 'fact', and to try to uncover the motivations for passing myths from one generation to the next. Myths like splitting a bird's tongue makes them talk, salting its tail prevents it from flying, and that a man named Jesus rose from the dead.

-- posted by Migisi

» Brian Tubbs - Resurrection "Myth"

In response to Knowledge and Fact posted by Migisi:

...and that a man named Jesus rose from the dead

As historical scholar Gary Habermas has said, calling the resurrection of Jesus a myth or simply saying "I don't believe it" is NOT an argument or a theory. It's merely a denial.

It is certainly your right to deny the resurrection of Jesus and to assert that it's a myth. We have freedom of speech. But, as Hubert Humphrey said: "Everyone has a right to be heard, but not everyone has a right to be taken seriously."

To be taken seriously, a person needs to assess the historical evidence for the resurrection of Jesus - and provide an alternative explanation. Or...at the very least...credibly challenge some of the evidence.

I frankly think this is the appeal of postmodernism, though. Critics of Christianity needn't bother themselves with facts and evidence (these things work against them). Instead, they can pull out the postmodernism card and deny that truth itself exists and that all facts are relative or subjective. And the evidence for Jesus' resurrection disappears. It's convenient. But, like postmodernist extremism, it's also irrational.

» pink101 - Knowledge and Fact

In response to Knowledge and Fact posted by Migisi:

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While I was working out this afternoon, I watched the History Channel's documentary on comets.
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The word comet comes from the ancient Greek that meant a long haired star.
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People have had several beliefs about comets, what they were made of, and about what the meant. Over the centuries that has gone from chariots of the gods to dirty snowballs, the latter of which is most recent and it is the correct version. Without going into any detail, it is pretty obvious that comets are a good example of how knowledge has changed over the centuries. Even men like Haley and Newton believed God used comets and meteors as forms of punishment for earth.
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Happily, times have changed. Maybe by the time Haley's comet comes back in 2060, humanity will have discovered even more truths that can be used to dispel the superstitions under which so many of us live today.
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-- posted by pink101