Protestantism

» pink101 - Hot Potato

In response to Hot Potato posted by GodChsr:

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Looks like you dropped the hot potato into the other guy's hands.
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But, where did he drop it?
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-- posted by pink101

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» redback - dilemna

In response to ... posted by GodChsr:

There is no easy answer for your dilemna.

One other difficulty is you are attempting some sort of informal adhoc advocacy on behalf of the most affected person WITHOUT involving them. What action are you assuming the applicant is able to take/wants to take after being fully informed. Would the deaf person enjoy working for an unethical company so much they are prepared to fight for it and gain what exactly...a pyrrhic victory?

There is a limit to what you should assume on their behalf and the decision the applicant may have already made. From my experience (Aussie EEO counselling practices) any aggrieved applicant is given all the options AND their consequences...and the decision is theirs.

OR are you primarily concerned about the company's ethics. I'm going out on a limb by assuming the application got "lost" again with an added concern by HR. Who was the (bleep) who rescued it from the garbage they know it went into? Wouldn't they know you marked it as presumably you do the others?

This examples the poor record your company may have regarding EEO and the compromises you need to make in a dog-eat-dog world. Are they only questionable in this area? There is a conflict of interest if the HR Manager...if they hires & fire...is also the EEO Manager.

Best of luck but it wouldn't hurt to discreetly check your options.

-- posted by redback

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» Migisi - dilemna

In response to dilemna posted by redback:
you are attempting some sort of informal adhoc advocacy on behalf of the most affected person WITHOUT involving them. What action are you assuming the applicant is able to take/wants to take ... Would the deaf person enjoy working for an unethical company ...?
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I'm glad you addressed these points, Red.
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I'm sure you've heard the expression "no good deed goes unpunished"? From my life experience, there's often truth to it. Odd as it might seem, some folks object to others assuming an advocate role in their lives - even if that advocacy might benefit them, and is rooted in a just cause. This applicant may not appreciate the unsolicited interference, nor wish to pursue any action, but move on instead. If so, Stephen could be risking his good job for nothing. I'd hate to see that happen.
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An afterthought. When I worked for an insurance agency, I often found sticky notes attached to unrelated papers - especially those in an expired or trash file. These notes have a strange way of 'migrating' from one piece of paper to another. Imagine if this applicant is not deaf, but somebody else was? The embarrassment and trouble because of misapplied note?
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There are too many unknowns.
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Who was the (bleep) who rescued it from the garbage they know it went into? Wouldn't they know you marked it as presumably you do the others?
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Yep. The HR likely thinks somebody's after his/her job... somebody's rifling through files and trash to find something incriminating. Happens a lot in corporate offices. If (s)he's smart, (s)he'll be far more watchful, lock her desk and cabinets, and use the paper shredder. I always did, and still do.

-- posted by Migisi

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» Migisi - Hot Potato

In response to Hot Potato posted by GodChsr:

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What should I do at this point other than check the SOP?
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I presume you've read subsequent posts.
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If it was me, I'd concentrate on keeping ~my~ job.

-- posted by Migisi

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» pink101 - Hot Potato

In response to Hot Potato posted by Migisi:

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Sounds like a common-sense approach to me.
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-- posted by pink101

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» Migisi - Hot Potato

In response to Hot Potato posted by pink101:
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Well, Pink, I'd hate to see the kid get into an ugly situation himself.
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Stephen has a wife and two darling daughters who would be seriously impacted if he lost his job. He's gotta think about them first and foremost - not a job applicant he doesn't know.
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Don't get me wrong... I'm all for championing just causes. Been there, done that. But, I never have, nor would I, jeopardize my family's welfare in doing so. IMO, that would be irresponsible.

-- posted by Migisi

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» pink101 - Hot Potato

In response to Hot Potato posted by Migisi:

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My position exactly.
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Read post #6 in this thread.
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-- posted by pink101

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» redback - dilemna

In response to dilemna posted by Migisi:

Odd as it might seem, some folks object to others assuming an advocate role in their lives...

As there is any number of options to consider, it's also possible such a well meaning advocate may simply take more power away from the aggrieved person by selecting the least favoured option...or the worst consequence.

If one can't help today's victim, look to get processes in place to avoid it happening again. When I did a quick check, I found some major US companies do get regularly noticed by EEO authorities. Sometimes breaches are due more to ignorance than bad attitude. And repeated litigation is a clumsy trigger to improve things as CEOs usually know.

It IS a fact that no good deed goes unpunished. I have been an EEO Co-ordinator and managed a staff support team in 1993...in a hostile work environment. Despite the need, I'm glad for my own mental health I "escaped".

-- posted by redback

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» Migisi - dilemna

In response to dilemna posted by redback:
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If one can't help today's victim, look to get processes in place to avoid it happening again.... I found some major US companies do get regularly noticed by EEO authorities.
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Indeed! Years ago (actually, decades now), I filed an EEO complaint against my country town for wage discrimination. I was the town's first female police officer. Unknown to me for two years, I'd been paid $1.68 less an hour than a male with the same time-in-grade and job duties. Back then, $1.68 was a lot. The police commission's excuse? "The men have families to support." I reminded them that I was a ~single~ mother of two - that their single no-child officers were being paid more than me - and besides, one's number of dependents should have no bearing on wages. The town righted its wrong without litigation, and I received my retro pay. However, the work environment became SO hostile to me that I quit a year later -- for my mental health and safety (imagine calling for 'back up', and it arriving late, if at all). I could've filed a subsequent complaint (retribution against me because of my EEO suit), but it would've been hard to prove. And to what end?
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The next female officer (a friend of mine) they hired two years later did benefit from my EEO action. So, good did come from it for my uniformed sisters.

-- posted by Migisi

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» redback - dilemna

In response to dilemna posted by Migisi:

I really don't want to experience all of life's ills just so I can speak from experience! ABC

As a manager of the team, I had the dilemna of lodging a compo claim against the executive where my junior staff had the responsibility of counselling/assisting me...and themselves being impotent to deal with the same executive they needed to negotiate with on my behalf. Many were intimidated out of lodging compo claims so I set an example. Effectively said goodbye to any future in management. I won and the specific exec was castigated by the insurer.

No gain without pain...as with your experience...but every so often in life, we do need to put up or shut up.

-- posted by redback

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