Protestantism

» Migisi - Let us drop the preconceived notions

In response to Let us drop the preconceived notions posted by landiss77:
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No, Jesus and God are not the same person in Mormon theology, they are separate, independent entities.
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In Mormon theology, was/is Jesus divine? A god-man?

-- posted by Migisi

» Migisi - Satan God's spirit son too

In response to Let us drop the preconceived notions posted by Migisi:

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Job 1:6 "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them."
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Job 2:1 - "Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD."
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Quoted from: http://en.fairmormon.org/Jesus_Christ_is...
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"Early Christian Evidence
"The early pre-nicene Church father Lactantius wrote:
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"Since God was possessed of the greatest foresight for planning, and of the greatest skill for carrying out in action, before He commenced this business of the world,--inasmuch as there was in Him, and always is, the fountain of full and most complete goodness,--in order that goodness might spring as a stream from Him, and might flow forth afar, He produced a Spirit like to Himself, who might be endowed with the perfections of God the Father... Then He made another being, in whom the disposition of the divine origin did not remain. Therefore he was infected with his own envy as with poison, and passed from good to evil; and at his own will, which had been given to him by God unfettered, he acquired for himself a contrary name. From which it appears that the source of all evils is envy. For he envied his predecessor, who through his steadfastness is acceptable and dear to God the Father. This being, who from good became evil by his own act, is called by the Greeks diabolus: we call him accuser, because he reports to God the faults to which he himself entices us. God, therefore, when He began the fabric of the world, set over the whole work that first and greatest Son, and used Him at the same time as a counselor and artificer, in planning, arranging, and accomplishing, since He is complete both in knowledge, and judgment, and power... [SOURCE: Lactantius, Divine Institutes 2.9. in Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds. The Ante-Nicene Fathers, 10 vols. (1885; reprint, Peabody: Hendrickson, 2004), 7:52-53]
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"Many things he here taught are not considered "orthodox" by today's standards. However, Lactantius was definitely orthodox during his lifetime. Amazingly, many things here correspond to LDS doctrine precisely in those areas that are "unorthodox." For example,
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1. "He produced a Spirit like to Himself," namely Christ. Christ, in this sense, is not the "co-equal," "eternally begotten," "same substance" "persona" of the later creeds.
2. "Then he made another being, in whom the disposition of the divine origin did not remain." God made another spirit who rebelled and who fell from his exalted status. He is the diabolus.
3. Christ is the "first and greatest Son." Not the "only" son.
4. Lastly, since the diabolus and Christ are both spirit sons of God, they are spirit brothers." (end)

-- posted by Migisi

» pink101 - Modem?

In response to Brothers, or Satan's creator? posted by Migisi:
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(John introduces Jesus as 'The Word' (Logos):)
"1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same [the Word] was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him [the Word]; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
John I
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Your response here and the following ones are indicative of the confusion I think so many Churchies possess.
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To me, the idea that Jesus is compared to or actually seen as "THE WORD" is a mystery we can figure out.
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Jesus gets to be the modem--to use a popular paradigm of the day--between us and God the Supreme Entity. So, how does a modem work?
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The word, modem, is a neologism made up of two other words; modulator and demodulator. That is to say that input goes in to a modem that is not able to be understood using normal methods; but, that the input comes out of the modem in a way that it can be understood using normal methods. So, a modem is a go between that sorts out all the gibberish so it makes sense.
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Thus, the idea of Jesus being a modem, is explained in those first three verse of John I.
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Ya think?
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-- posted by pink101

» Shawn Landis - Modem?

In response to Modem? posted by pink101:

FAIR is not a really a good source for Mormon iformation unless you want to wade through a lot of wordiness that doesn't say very much. I also note that FAIR left out a good bit of what Mormons are actually taught in Sunday school.

(I guess that's why FAIR has no "official" ties to the organization itself.) Basically all you get is that Christ was created first, Satan second, and Satan rebelled. With the exception of the creation of Jesus and Satan, there's no point of difference there between that and Mainstream Christian theology.

But if I may, trying to make sense out theological viewpoints is a pointless exercise in frustration.

Pink, I always understood the word Logos in Greek to share some similarity with the Chinese idea of the Tao -- for lack of a better term, a nothing that existed before anything else and gave birth to the universe.

» Shawn Landis - Modem?

In response to Modem? posted by pink101:

Now, let me help Lucifer regain his honor, as he should never have been converted over to Satan. This was a problem that came about when the Vulgate was translated into Latin. The text referred to a Babylonian king who was referred to as the Morning Star.

Unfortunately, Jerome did not know this and substituted a different name with the same meaning for his Latin speaking audience -- Lucifer, the Light Bearer.

But it is not a symbolic older brother meaning, it is meant *literally.* (Please refer to my article on Heavenly Mother.)
If there is a logic behind the Mormon view of the divine being it is that he is in many ways like us. Mormonism even goes so far as to definitvely state his Gender, while most of Christianity uses He only for lack of a better term.

» pink101 - Modem?

In response to Modem? posted by landiss77:

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You are going to HAVE to post your links here.
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-- posted by pink101

» pink101 - Modem?

In response to Modem? posted by landiss77:
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I always understood the word Logos in Greek to share some similarity with the Chinese idea of the Tao -- for lack of a better term, a nothing that existed before anything else and gave birth to the universe.
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I think the concept of Modem fits nicely with how you're explaining the meaning of the idea of the Chinese Tao.
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BTW, you used the word, FAIR, in your post as though it was something someone brought up in another post. Sorry, I'll reread all the posts; but, I think I missed something.
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No problem.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Jesus and God - separate

In response to Let us drop the preconceived notions posted by landiss77:

And that, Shawn, is why Mormonism cannot be considered an evangelical Christian faith. It is simply not in the same category.

» Migisi - Modem?

In response to Modem? posted by pink101:
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BTW, you used the word, FAIR, in your post as though it was something someone brought up in another post.
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That was my post. Shawn was referring to the link I quoted from earlier. Having no idea what Mormons believe, I didn't know if it presented accurate info or not. Apparently, Shawn doesn't think so.
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Shawn, is there a better info online source you can refer me to?
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Responding to your earlier reply to me, I understand your symbolism when you say "a modem is a go between that sorts out all the gibberish so it makes sense". However, this implies that the knowledge of God is gibberish - except to a select few (like the Bible prophets, Jesus, Paul, etc.). I personally don't agree with that, and don't see any need for another human to act as a 'go between' (or modem) between me and my God. But that's just ~my~ POV.

-- posted by Migisi

» paper_turtle - Modem?

In response to Modem? posted by landiss77:

Pink, I always understood the word Logos in Greek to share some similarity with the Chinese idea of the Tao -- for lack of a better term, a nothing that existed before anything else and gave birth to the universe.

Yes. As logos was explained to me it symbolizes the idea behind the expression (that is a universal or wide-spread principle or idea). Logos also represents what the Oxford Companion to the Bible refers to as "a self-communicating divine presence." OCB also says that logos as used in John is "strongly parallel" to the concept of wisdom, as understood by Hellinistic Jews.

In the passage in John it is not indicative of a simple command OR The Law.

peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle