Protestantism

» Shawn Landis - Trapped in the ring

In response to Trapped in the ring posted by pink101:
And yes, I have played Marbles...
Didn't like it, and I think it was popular when I was growing up. If my bocce ball prowess is any indication, I probably would have been good at it.

» pink101 - Black Eye?

In response to Trapped in the ring posted by Migisi:
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Heh, heh.
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You DID play marbles.
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For keeps, of course. My friend had a two coffee cans for the marbles he had won. A two pound can for the regular marbles and a one pound can for special marbles he would never let go. He was good.
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When my boys were that age, I wanted to teach them; but, they weren't the least bit interested. Apparently, marbles were out and hoola-hoops were in.
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But, Mormonism isn't about marbles.
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Do you know anything about that belief system? I know that you're good at doing research.
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Maybe you can help Brian get over the black eye someone must have given here a while back?
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-- posted by pink101

» Migisi - Trapped in the ring

In response to Trapped in the ring posted by landiss77:

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Did you ever played Jacks (aka Eggs in the Basket, Toad in the Hole, Fivestones)? Boys thought it was a sissy game - until they tried it.

-- posted by Migisi

» Migisi - Black Eye?

In response to Black Eye? posted by pink101:
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My friend had a two coffee cans for the marbles he had won.
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My brother only took my cat's eyes from me when he won (which he usually did - the brat!). He knew I really liked those. It made my losing even more painful. In the street, the neighborhood kids always played For Keeps. When I had no marbles left, my brother would give me his ugliest and scarred solids. We always knew who the ~good~ players were by their marbles. I was not good - but they let me play anyway.
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Do you know anything about that belief system?
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No, I don't. I was hoping to learn from Shawn. I responded to an LDS TV commercial once, and they sent me a new Mormon Bible. I did read a lot of it. It seemed to have a lot of repetition in it. But that's as close to Mormonism as I've come.
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Teach me, Shawn.
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Maybe you can help Brian get over the black eye someone must have given here a while back?
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By now, it should've turned yellow and be almost gone. If it's still swollen, put a big serving spoon in the freezer for a while, and then hold the cold spoon on the swelling. Worked for my kids when they got clobbered.

-- posted by Migisi

» Brian Tubbs - Let us drop the preconceived notions

In response to Let us drop the preconceived notions posted by landiss77:

Don't go and hide,

I told you that I would read what you wrote and that I would ask questions if I needed clarification. That's not hiding.

...I want you to know why you think the Mormons are hiding their beliefs.

You want ME to know why I think the Mormons are "hiding their beliefs." Am I reading that right?

(Romney's dismissal of the question is another problem. It was politically astute and made Huckabee look ignorant. The response was not technically a lie, but it was still dishonest.)

For the record, I asked the question whether the Mormons are hiding their beliefs. I didn't pose that as a statement of fact. I do believe - and you apparently agree - that Romney is hiding some of his Mormon beliefs. Huckabee has been far more up-front and direct about his Baptist convictions, than Romney has about....well just about everything, now that I think about it.

(This is one area where I really respect the Lutherans for not making Martin Luther appear to be an angel. The Mormon portrayal of Smith is a far cry from the historical record.)

Indeed. No human being is perfect, except for Jesus himself - who was God in the flesh.

I cannot cover everything Mormons believe here -- your points of contention I believe are trinity/godhead, salvation (which is something I have never understood why the theology has held on to, exaltation is the goal of the religion), baptism for the dead, the view of Jesus, Grace (a concept absent from Mormonism.)

Truthfully, I'm interested in whatever aspect you want to talk about. I do think, as a starting point, we could look at the Huckabee-Romney exchange and the whole question of whether Jesus and Lucifer are "brothers."

Actually I am interested in continuing a dialog if we can both drop our notions...

My notion is that Mitt Romney would prefer the American people not reflect on the specific theology of Mormonism. And, you know what? I have no problem with Romney desiring to keep the specifics of his faith separate from the political race. I think all the candidates should. But, I do think Huckabee asked an honest (albeit poorly thought out and inappropriate) question - and Romney played it off in a way that suggested (to me) he was hiding some things.

But, hey, I'm game for a fair, open exchange of ideas and thoughts. Always have been.

Mormon history, or at least the presentation of it to active Mormons, is the weakest spot. It also puts many people who don't fit the mold into a kind of living hell, which is one theory for the high rate of anti-depressant use and high teen suicide rate in Utah.

I'd be interested in hearing more about this. Very interesting.

And, btw, feel free to promote your articles here. I'm sorry I haven't read as many of them as I should.

Though to be honest, I'm (right now) more interested in your online game articles.

» Shawn Landis - Let us drop the preconceived notions

The online game articles are what bring in the most traffic for me. I'd like to go into other areas and have a few ones of a non-religious, non-gaming nature planned that have to do with Pennsylvania Dutch traditions.

Online games are an odd thing, I've found the most religious people in Star Wars Galaxies, but have found deeply religious people in WoW and EQ when I played them. I don't have a great desire to spend a lot of time in them right now because it's too easy to lose track of time. But as much as I think Landover Baptist goes too far, they did hit on something when they did a facetious World of Warcraft ministry article.

Now, Romney specifically was drawing attention away from his beliefs. Ideally, where he stands on the issues should be more important and he has changed many of his stances to appeal to the Republican base. I'm not for Huckabee or Romney, but at least if Huckabee does win, I know their is not pressure from the organization to fall in line with what they want. I may be paranoid on this last part, but fairly recent history makes me wonder. (I favor Giuliani.) The involvement of the Mormon church in politics is much less than it used to be, but they still have called out in favor of acts from the pulpit -- most notably the ERA and the Defense of Marriage act. This is one reason why I am in favor of church's being forced to show where there money goes. (Most of them DO do this, the Mormons have not allowed full access to their records, although they are starting to be more open about it.)

But I personally do not see what the problem was with Mitt answering -- Lucifer and Jesus, as children of God, are brothers, and so is everyone else on the planet. It's not like he was asked about less well known aspects of the faith or if he was wearing his temple garments.

And there is no "Mormon Bible" unless you mean the Joseph Smith translation. Ironically, the largest Mormon group does not use this, but instead uses the King James Version from the 17th century, because the second largest group, the Community of Christ, owns the copyrights. Oops, that should have went in the previous post when I use the standard works, I mean the scriptures the Mormons use -- the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price, and the Doctrine and Covenants.

» pink101 - Let us drop the preconceived notions

In response to Let us drop the preconceived notions posted by landiss77:

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But I personally do not see what the problem was with Mitt answering -- Lucifer and Jesus, as children of God, are brothers, and so is everyone else on the planet. It's not like he was asked about less well known aspects of the faith or if he was wearing his temple garments.
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Goes to show you how far fetched religionism can go once the barn doors are removed.
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The "brothers" thing ends up making sense. Either that or Jesus gets to be Satan's father by also being God. So, is Satan the disobedient "Son of God"?
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-- posted by pink101

» Shawn Landis - Let us drop the preconceived notions

In response to Let us drop the preconceived notions posted by pink101:

No, Jesus and God are not the same person in Mormon theology, they are separate, independent entities.

» pink101 - Let us drop the preconceived notions

In response to Let us drop the preconceived notions posted by landiss77:

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That's the way I see it.
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Jesus is symbolic of the eldest brother of all Children of God.
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-- posted by pink101

» Migisi - Brothers, or Satan's creator?

In response to Let us drop the preconceived notions posted by pink101:
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The "brothers" thing ends up making sense. Either that or Jesus gets to be Satan's father by also being God. So, is Satan the disobedient "Son of God"?
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If one believes Jesus IS God, I think the latter is more 'plausible'. Jesus created Satan, making Satan Jesus' son. Ponder these verses:
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(John introduces Jesus as 'The Word' (Logos):)
"1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same [the Word] was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him [the Word]; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
- John 1
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"2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;"
- Heb 1
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"Who [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."
- 1 Colossians 1:15-17. 'Consist' means to exist; to subsist; to be supported and maintained.
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If Jesus is God and created ALL THINGS -- then he created that invisible, perfect, and favorite heavenly being named Lucifer/Satan (Ezekiel 28:15), who Jesus/God later cast down to earth (Ez 28:17). And in order for Lucifer/Satan's 'iniquity' to exist, Jesus/God would've had to have created it. Since Lucifer/Satan was a created being himself, and not Jesus/God, he had no power to 'create' anything - including his own 'iniquity'. Additionally, in order for Lucifer/Satan to commit or further that iniquity, Jesus/God had to have created in him the ability to do so - the 'free will'.

-- posted by Migisi