Protestantism

» Migisi - Vs 5 - 7 God's remedy

In response to Vs 4 - Build a city and a name posted by Migisi:
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5 But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the men were building.
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If the LORD is all-knowing and omnipresent, he'd have known about the city and tower already. He wouldn't have needed to come down to see either. Who saw God come down to have a look? And if God was offended by what they were doing, he could've wiped it out with one sneeze, or sent a natural disaster.
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6 The LORD said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them.
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God's creation - Man - displayed ambition, intelligence, and creativity beyond what God had intended or bestowed upon him. God was impressed, yet worried, by their collective human successes and advancement. These men could accomplish things without God. Nothing was impossible for them. That had to stop!
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7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other."
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"...let US go down"? Who is 'us'?
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Basically, the Gods ("us") of War cut/disrupted communications (a first-strike war tactic). Without communication, chaos ensues. The 'enemy' (Man) can't organize. The people scatter.

-- posted by Migisi

» Migisi - Still interested?

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Is anyone interested in continuing this thread, or should we let it gasp and die?

-- posted by Migisi

» pink101 - Still interested?

In response to Still interested? posted by Migisi:
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I find it interesting.
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Can you comment on how this story of Babel speaks to our present day situation in the world?
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When I was a boy in the church, the preacher was always able to do that.
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-- posted by pink101

» redback - Vs 4 - Build a city and a name

In response to Vs 4 - Build a city and a name posted by Migisi:

As we're both indicating, it's a macro/micro question that goes to both process and program.

It apparently happened without any chance to prepare or take notes. I mean, it's not only language but a memory of a the contents of a discussion, isn't it? Inner thoughts weren't confounded, just an ability to exchange ideas etc?

Sometimes stories won't make sense to me if critical components of them contain non sequiturs. "OK, forget about how yesterday could possibly have happened, just concentrate on the today when I can't get my betrothed to say: 'I do' in any way that makes sense to me."

When Al Gore lost, they said: "forget it...that's history" keeps coming back to haunt me and I have no idea of the consequences had Gore got in.

-- posted by redback

» pink101 - We Come At Reality

In response to Vs 4 - Build a city and a name posted by redback:
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The stage is set according to the way we come at reality, i.e., how we frame our concepts.
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When we plant our perception in such foundations as so-called Biblical Reality, we are hooked to see whatever it is we see in that light.
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Therefore, it behooves us to try to interpret what we are reading in light of what we are seeing in our present situation and I don't mean here in this thread; but, it society.
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When religious ideology is used to turn us off to so-called worldly issues, we tend to turn our backs on the issues of politics and we worry if someone running for president believes in Noah's Ark and the Flood or not. How did the Grand Canyon come into existence. Is the United Nations an example of the Tower of Babel and is it to be the cause of our doom as a people?
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There is more to this study than what is on the pages of scripture.
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(I'm stuck at home with a miserable head cold--sorry to say. The upside of which is that I don't have to do any shopping. )
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-- posted by pink101

» Migisi - Still interested?

In response to Still interested? posted by pink101:
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Can you comment on how this story of Babel speaks to our present day situation in the world?
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Which current 'situation'? There are so many.
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Staying with the 'Bible' topic and confounding languages (for now):
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_trans...
(quote) "As of 2005, at least one book of the Bible has been translated into 2,400 of the 6,900 languages listed by SIL, including 680 languages in Africa, followed by 590 in Asia, 420 in Oceania, 420 in Latin America and the Caribbean, 210 in Europe, and 75 in North America."
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Humans being flawed, I think there ~had~ to be much lost, mistaken, misunderstood, misinterpreted, during the numerous translations from oral Aramaic - to written Hebrew/Greek - to 2,400 other languages. If God is all-knowing, he must've known that by creating different languages (intentionally, "...so they will not understand each other." vs 7), this would also create misunderstandings amongst the world's people about HIM -- and divisions within his own church ("...world Christianity consists of 6 major ecclesiastico-cultural blocs, divided into 300 major ecclesiastical traditions." From http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/a106.... )
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Luke 12:51, Jesus said: "Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division."
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1 Corinthians 11:18, Paul complains: "In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, and to some extent I believe it."
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--------------------------
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(I'm stuck at home with a miserable head cold--sorry to say.
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Did you get a flu shot this year? I didn't, but should've. All three of my grandkids have been sick, and the lil' darlin's just HAD to kiss gramma!

-- posted by Migisi

» pink101 - Still interested?

In response to Still interested? posted by Migisi:
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Which current 'situation'? There are so many.
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Please read my post just above yours with the subject line, We Come At Reality.
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-- posted by pink101

» Migisi - Still interested?

In response to Still interested? posted by pink101:
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How do YOU apply the Babel legend to today? Connect the dots for me.
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In the legend, we see a society that settles in a region, builds a city (nation), creates a god to unite them, and builds a highrise to reach the heavens. God speaks to Man's ambition: "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them."
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Can we apply this to the US - if we remain ONE people speaking ONE LANGUAGE (English, or Spanish?) - then nothing is impossible for us? And look what God did to squash Man's ambitions. He introduced language barriers.

-- posted by Migisi

» pink101 - Who Says So?

In response to Still interested? posted by Migisi:
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"...look what God did to squash Man's ambitions. He introduced language barriers."
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Who says so?

-- posted by pink101

» redback - We Come At Reality

In response to We Come At Reality posted by pink101:

"Therefore, it behooves us to try to interpret what we are reading in light of what we are seeing in our present situation and I don't mean here in this thread; but, it society."

To the extent I understand you, I think I'm doing this...without being bound to only seeking a modern "connection". I don't have the same 'investment' in the Bible as others here.

If this Babel story is pure myth or a legend with no substantive base-facts, no physical history, only allegory or pure fiction...then the legend creates self-fulfilling barriers...its own non sequiturs. AND there IS a stumbling block for me over the languages per my previous posts.

So, I don't build houses on sand. Before I can draw any comparative analysis to "our present situation", it needs to make a tad more sense. I am not locked into any belief system that relies on all consequence having ancient cause. (Except to say without any Earthlings, none of this applies)

An extract from this linguistic discussion paper:
"This Hebrew myth explains the diversity of human languages in terms of an initial state involving a single language being ended by divine intervention in the relatively recent past. Of course, this is quite contrary to the modern scientific linguistic position that humans have had language for at least 70,000 years and that diversification (and convergence) of languages has proceeded by way of 'cultural evolution' throughout this period. As one might expect, those who still accept the story as literally true are motivated by fundamentalist Jewish or Christian belief in the literal inerrancy of Genesis, ie they are 'creationists'."
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~atheist/OLD.h...

OK...Dr Newbrook is a linguistic consultant to Australian Skeptics. For any balance, what language did Adam speak that remained unchanged over countless generations? Many languages have become extinct:

http://delacruz.csse.unimelb.edu.au/ling...

yet Adam's language remained untouched OR all languages that naturally developed made a timely convergence only to be 'confounded' at Babel. I have no investment in atheism either.

So, without putting too fine a point on it...if it is simply 'false' by whatever softer label, then any (intended???) allegory has "dirty hands" in a manner of speaking.

-- posted by redback