Protestantism

» Migisi - Continued from 'the Bible' thread

.
We've discussed Genesis up to Chapter 11 here: http://protestantism.suite101.com/discus...
.
Gen 11:1 "Now the whole world had one language and a common speech."
.
Remember my post (#1205) back in Chapter 10 ['the Bible' thread] where I emphasized these verses:
4: [Japheth's] "...each with their own language"
20: [Ham's] "...clans and languages."
31: [Shem's] "...clans and languages."
.
This first verse in Chapter 11 contradicts those verses.
.
Comments?

-- posted by Migisi

» pink101 - One Language

In response to Continued from 'the Bible' thread posted by Migisi:
.
The idea of one Language seems to not mean much in a world where no matter what language one might speak, it is able to be interpreted so that everyone can understand what is said.
.
That's the way it is at the United Nations where the words of any speaker in the general assembly are heard in the listener's language through the earphones they wear? So that it appears everyone speaks the same language there. I wonder if that is why almost all Evangelistic Christians are against the United Nations. Is it seen as a post modern day Tower of Babel?
.
http://www.amazon.com/Tower-Babble-Unite...
.

-- posted by pink101

» Migisi - One Language

In response to One Language posted by pink101:
.
An interesting perception, Pink. Makes me wonder if Noah's descendants were bi/tri-lingual?
.
From what I read...
Ham's descendant, Nimrod, was responsible for building the city of Babel (Hebrew word for "Babylon" - and Babylon means "gate of the god"). Nimrod and his son Asshur built other Assyrian cities which became the center of advanced civilization at the time. (Notable Babylonians like Hammurabi, Nebuchadnezzar, Cyrus the Great, and Alexander the great.)
.
But... the Sumerians were the first people of Babylonia (dating back to 3,500 B.C.), not the Hammites or Semites (they appeared much later in Sumerian history). Sometime before 3,000 B.C. the Sumerians began to produce written records on clay tablets. The tablets are written in Sumerian, and in various dialects of Akkadian (their Semitic conqueror's language). The tablets include historical and legal documents, letters, economic records, literary and religious texts, and writings on mathematics, astronomy, medicine, and magic.
.
The region north of Sumer was first known as Akkad. Semitic people (Akkadians) lived there - who later invaded Sumeria and ruled (2370-2230 BC). Around 2000 BC, a new Semitic people called Amorites conquered the region and built the capital city "Babylon". Sumeria then became known as Babylonia.
.
-------------------
.
The Amorites
http://history-world.org/amorites.htm
"The Amorites were member of an ancient Semitic-speaking people who dominated the history of Mesopotamia, Syria, and Palestine from about 2000 to about 1600 BC. In the oldest cuneiform sources (c. 2400-c. 2000 BC), the Amorites were equated with the West, though their true place of origin was most likely Arabia, not Syria. They were troublesome nomads and were believed to be one of the causes of the downfall of the 3rd dynasty of Ur (c. 2112-c. 2004 BC).
.
"During the 2nd millennium BC the Akkadian term Amurru referred not only to an ethnic group but also to a language and to a geographic and political unit in Syria and Palestine. At the beginning of the millennium, a large-scale migration of great tribal federations from Arabia resulted in the occupation of Babylonia proper, the mid-Euphrates region, and Syria-Palestine. They set up a mosaic of small kingdoms and rapidly assimilated the Sumero-Akkadian culture. It is possible that this group was connected with the Amorites mentioned in earlier sources; some scholars, however, prefer to call this second group Eastern Canaanites, or Canaanites.
.
"Almost all of the local kings in Babylonia (such as Hammurabi of Babylon) belonged to this stock....
....
"In the dark age between about 1600 and about 1100 BC, the language of the Amorites disappeared from Babylonia and the mid-Euphrates; in Syria and Palestine, however, it became dominant. In Assyrian inscriptions from about 1100 BC, the term Amurru designated part of Syria and all of Phoenicia and Palestine but no longer referred to any specific kingdom, language, or population."
.
------------------
.
Great information site on ancient Sumeria here: http://history-world.org/sumeria.htm Read 'Language' and 'Language II'.
The Sumerian Timeline is interesting too: http://history-world.org/timeline.htm

-- posted by Migisi

» Migisi - Nimrod built Babel?

In response to One Language posted by Migisi:
.
Did Nimrod really build Babel (later called Babylon)? Nimrod was a descendant of Ham. Historians attribute the building of Babel/Babylon to "Semites" - who were the descendants of Shem, not Ham.
.
http://history-world.org/akkadians.htm
"The Akkadians were a Semitic people living on the Arabic peninsula during the great flourishing period of the Sumerian city-states. Although we don't know much about early Akkadian history and culture, we do know that as the Akkadians migrated north, they came in increasing conflict with the Sumerian city-states, and in 2340 BC, the great Akkadian military leader, Sargon, conquered Sumer and built an Akkadian empire stretching over most of the Sumerian city-states and extending as far away as Lebanon. Sargon based his empire in the city of Akkad, which became the basis of the name of his people. This great capital of the largest empire humans had ever seen up until that point later became the city of Babylon, which was the commercial and cultural center of the middle east for almost two thousand years.
.
But Sargon's ambitious empire lasted for only a blink of an eye in the long time spans with which we measure Mesopotamian history. In 2125, the Sumerian city of Ur in southern Mesopotamia rose up in revolt, and the Akkadian empire fell before a renewal of Sumerian city-states.
.
The Akkadians were Semites, that is, they spoke a language drawn from a family of languages called Semitic languages (the term "Semite" is a modern designation taken from the Hebrew Scriptures; Shem was a son of Noah and the nations descended from Shem are the Semites). These languages [Semitic] include Hebrew, Arabic, Assyrian, and Babylonian. After the final end of Sumerian power and civilization around 2000 BC, the area came under the exclusive control of Semitic peoples for centuries."

-- posted by Migisi

» _Boanerges_ - Continued from 'the Bible' thread

In response to Continued from 'the Bible' thread posted by Migisi:
This first verse in Chapter 11 contradicts those verses.
Mig.. I think this is a good example of how you are not understanding the Bible..
Where exactly is this contradiction? Is it that to you chapter 10 comes before chapter 11? Remember, even in chapter 11 the order given is, as well, not in chronological order...
These are the 70 Nations...

THE TOWER OF BABEL AND THE CONFUSION OF LANGUAGES
by Lambert Dolphin
http://www.ldolphin.org/babel.html
..snippet....

The Tower of Babel
"The tenth and eleventh chapters of Genesis are composed of genealogies of nations and peoples designed to link the story of Noah and the Flood, which fills chapters 6 through 9, with the story of Abraham and his descendants, which fills the remainder of the book. The genealogies begin with Noah's three sons-Shem, Ham, and Japheth-and move eventually to Terah from whom Abraham is born. At two points there are parentheses dealing with the founding of the first world empire under Nimrod. The first parenthesis is 10:8-12. The second is 11:1-9.

"These two go together. The first tells of Nimrod's exploits. The second does not mention Nimrod but speaks rather of an attempt to build the city of Babylon, a central feature of which was to be a great tower. On the surface these seem to be accounts of two quite separate incidents. But this is not the case. The second does indeed tell of the founding of Babylon, but we learn from the first that Babylon was the initial city of Nimrod's city-building empire. Moreover, as we study them we see that the founding of Babylon and the building of the tower of Babel in chapter 11 are an elaboration of the earlier narrative. In the first we have an emphasis on Nimrod--what he was like, what he did, what his goals were. In the second we have a treatment of the same theme but from the perspective of the people who worked with him. In each case there is a desire to build a civilization without God."

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» _Boanerges_ - be sure to

read the first link "Table of Nations" as it explains clearly chapters 10 and 11... I think that once you give a closer look, you will find there is no contradiction..
In fact, there are no contradictions in the Bible - anywhere!
No one has been able, so far (as of 2007) been able to produce even one contradiction... So much for the skeptics attempts at discrediting God's INFALLIBLE word... It simply cannot be broken.. !

I hope this helps your research It clear did for me!... (many years ago).. In fact, Noah's 3 sons are a cornerstone of fact in world history and, for me, is one of the strongest arguments used for the skeptic who attempts to discredit Gods word. It is one reason that nearly 8yrs ago I trusted the bible as truth, infallible, and given by God - for mankind...

"whosoever will"... may come freely....

-- posted by _Boanerges_