Protestantism

» GodChsr - Gentiles and the Mosaic Law

In response to Gentiles and the Mosaic Law posted by BrianTubbs:

Again Brian I am requesting the Biblical information needed to base your claim.

I understand what you are saying about the Old Testament but thus far you are simply offering a suggested idea... That ideas tends to be the consesus of the majority of Evengelic churches, ok BUT I am asking for the change... point to me where Scripture lay out a change. You speak of a new Covenant, a new 'dispensation' perhaps but I have yet to see Biblical evidence from you concerning the issue. So please I would be glad to listen to your expositions if you had a Scriptural reference to base your exposition on.

I am patient, so I'll give it one last chance then I'll post up the information that 'I' have found concerning the abolition of the Sabbath.

-- posted by GodChsr

» GodChsr - Parts of the Law

In response to Parts of the Law posted by pink101:

I concur that the overall 'feeling' I got from the church was cultish but to be quite honest none of their doctrinal beliefs are Cultish.

They do believe that Ellen White was inspired, but no more than some might say Billy Graham is inspired. Ellen White did claim entirely that her works where NOT equal to scripture and based on that declaration we can't use Ellen as a means to claim they are a cult. I don't think they are anyway.

On the same note though, I will never become a member of their church because they absolutely believe that the SDA is the chosen 'remnant' spoken of in Revelation..., interestingly enough that remnant is 144,000 and their church tops the Hundred millions! I guess many within the church itself could be considered heretical??? hehehe

Either way, the overemphasis of Eschatology and End times study was enough to bother me, especially when the pastor told a story about how he witnessed a man floating around the room (he was demon possessed apparently) Interestingly enough his claim of the levitation used the phrasiology of "It appeared that the man was floating around the room" No actual claim, I guess there always has to be a back door to escape.

Oddly enough, it appears that Biblical demons were never able to defy the Law of Physics, only God could. So maybe then this man was possessed of God. I personally think the Pastor was a liar to be quite frank. I will apologize When I know any different... for now, yawn.

-- posted by GodChsr

» GodChsr - Sabbatarianism and The Law

In response to Sabbatarianism and The Law posted by Migisi:

You used a few quotes here:
Let's start with Gal 4:9-11 (or all through that Chapter basically)
It seems to me that he is condemning the mentality, not the observance. It should also be noted that he did not mention the Sabbath but rather "'special' days, months and years" This does not sound like the '10 Commandments' since the Ten Commandments never list a Month or year. That was a Mosaic Law, not a commandment from God to observe those days (I presume). My presumtion is based on verse 8 which says "slaves to those who by nature at not gods" On the contrary if he was speaking of the 10 Commandments that would be a Law from God, not man.

Unless you have something to add to these series of Verses then I think we can pass them off as not dealing with the 10 Commandments?

You also mention Rom 14:5... I am glad you mention this because it does show the greatness of Christ living in us rather than we earning Christ. This greatly shows the weakness of those who believe that they can somehow EARN Christ's Salvation.
On the same note: This Chapter does not condone the END of the Law, it simple (like others do) points out the weakness of the Law without Christ. Ie: Christ fulfilled the Law.

You added one last quote
Paul protests against judging the piety of the neophytes "in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a feast-day . . . or a Sabbath-day"
For the sake of any future readers this reference is COL 2:16

-- posted by GodChsr

» Migisi - Sabbatarianism and The Law

In response to Sabbatarianism and The Law posted by GodChsr:
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You used a few quotes here:
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Yep, I only quoted the article. It's authors, Joseph Jacobs and Emil G. Hirsch, referred to Paul and the Galatians/Romans verses. I didn't introduce them.
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Did you read any of the subsections?
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In your response to Pink: "...they absolutely believe that the SDA is the chosen 'remnant' spoken of in Revelation..., interestingly enough that remnant is 144,000..." The Jehovah's Witness believe the same thing about their church.

-- posted by Migisi

» Migisi - Worship every day

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All quoted from:
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Who moved the Sabbath to Sunday?
http://www.kencollins.com/question-42.htm
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"Did Rome do it?
If Rome changed the Sabbath to Sunday, it would only explain why Protestants and Roman Catholics worship on Sunday. It would not explain why Orthodox Christians worship on Sunday, and it certainly would not explain why Syriac, the Armenian, and Coptic Christians worship on Sunday, because they had very little contact with Rome until modern times...
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"Did the Emperor Constantine do it?
...He also changed the Roman week from ten days to seven days, so that Sunday, the Christian day of worship would always be a holiday...
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"When did worship on Sundays begin?
In the early centuries, Christians everywhere worshipped on Sunday. We know that from Christian writers who described ancient worship, such as Justin Martyr, who died in 157. All ancient churches, from Gaul to Armenia, had their main worship service on Sunday.
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"Why did ancient Christians worship on Sunday?
Sunday was the universal day of Christian worship because it is the day of the Resurrection, the day after the Sabbath, and the Feast of Firstfruits-which is why Paul calls Jesus' resurrection the firstfruits of the resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:20). Since it is the first day of the week, it is also the eighth day of the previous week, the day of the new creation (the allusion in 2 Corinthians 5:17).
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"The Sabbath commandment does not require worship, it prohibits work. Worship can occur on any day. The synagogue originated during the Babylonian Captivity, not as a place of worship, but as an school to preserve their heritage and their religion in a foreign land.
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"In the first century, many Christians, both Jews and gentile "God-fearers," continued to attend synagogue instruction on the Sabbath and then attended Christian worship on Sunday. Since the Roman week was ten days long at the time, Sunday didn't always fall on the Roman weekend, so services were held before sunrise. In the 90s, the rabbis excommunicated the Christians and inserted wording into the synagogue liturgy that would make Christians very uncomfortable, even if they did attend. So we were left with just Sunday.
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"When Christianity became dominant in an area, it was common for larger churches to hold worship services on all days of the week.
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"Why do some people call Sunday the Sabbath?
The Sabbath is, of course, Saturday. As the Church grew and Christians came to outnumber Jews, there was talk of Sunday being like a Christian Sabbath....
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"How does one keep the Sabbath holy?
The word "Sabbath" is related to the Hebrew word for "rest," and the primary duty of a Jew is to stop working on the Sabbath. Biblically, you keep the Sabbath holy by not working...
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"Saturday is the Sabbath. Sunday is the Lord's Day, because Jesus rested in the tomb on the Sabbath and rose on Sunday. Therefore the principal day of Christian worship has always been Sunday-until the 19th century when some Christians innovated the custom of worshiping on the Sabbath.
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"What's a Christian to do?
The apostles had a meeting to decide which of the Jewish laws apply to non-Jewish Christians. Their decision is recorded in Acts 15:24-29. If you read it carefully, there is nothing in there about the Sabbath. Any modern Jewish rabbi would agree-the Sabbath law only applies to Jews...
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However, there is no day of the week on which you must not worship. Your church can have its principal day of worship on Saturdays, if it likes. Your church could even have its principal day of worship on Tuesdays, for that matter... There is also nothing stopping you from worshiping every single day..."

-- posted by Migisi

» pink101 - Worship every day

In response to Worship every day posted by Migisi:

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Does anyone know when it was decided that Sunday was to be the first day of the week rather than the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, or seventh?
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It does have something to do with the calendars that we use, does it not?
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Juliet:
"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."
Romeo and Juliet (II, ii, 1-2) William Shakespeare
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-- posted by pink101

» Migisi - Worship every day

In response to Worship every day posted by pink101:
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday
"Sunday was the first day of the astrological week, in the Hebrew week, and in the Ecclesiastical Latin week of the first millennium.
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"Various sources point to the seven day week originating in ancient Babylonia or Sumer, with the planetary week originating in Hellenistic Egypt."
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The Hebrew scriptures (Bible) say God created the world in six days and rested on the seventh - Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath.
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However, today - in international standard ISO-8601, the International Organization for Standardization (ISO) has decreed that Monday shall be the first day of the week.

-- posted by Migisi

» GodChsr - ;)

I realize you were copy and pasting Mig... I threw out 'you wuoted' liberally. Sorry for misrepresenting you.
I think it's important to note that I am fine with the observance of Sunday as a Day of Worship, Not Sabbath.
I also believe we are saved by Grace alone. (Gal 3)
I believe that Grace compells us to obey God's laws. (Heb 10)
I think it's important to recognize the contrast that the Jew did not originally: They sacrificed every year because their sin was constant. If somehow their sin had stopped then no more sacrifice was needed. On the same note, we are no different in that we are sinless... I think what seperates us from the previous mentality is that we recognize the need for obedience because of Grace. Where the Judaizers of the past recognized their need for obedience as a means FOR Grace.
Brothers and Sisters don't let me give you the wrong impression, by no means is my desire to be obedient a means FOR Grace... it is a response to Grace.
So let me offer up a suggestion...
Those who seek observe the Law in search of Salvation are lost
and
Those who ignore the Law based on Grace are also lost.
The latter is the the least accepted but I offer you this:
26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
You and I all know that there are many of these verses and they ALWAYS follow a segmented chapter about Grace.
This writing style was intentional because it again came back to the nature of Man... Take your freedom and continue is sin.
Just as God gave the Law to not committ adultery he also gave the Law to Keep the Sabbath Holy. They are one in the same, they fall in 2 categories, God and Man (Upon these all things rest)... So if we recognize God's will for us yet we ignore his beckoning then we are not of Him.

-- posted by GodChsr

» Brian Tubbs - "Patience"

In response to Gentiles and the Mosaic Law posted by GodChsr:

I am patient, so I'll give it one last chance then I'll post up the information that 'I' have found concerning the abolition of the Sabbath.

This is a very condescending statement. I have no desire to try your "patience," nor do I wish to submit to "one last chance" in posting an adequate scriptural explanation to my understanding of the mosaic law and the Sabbath.

So...carry on.

» Migisi - ;)

In response to ;) posted by GodChsr:

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I think it's important to note that I am fine with the observance of Sunday as a Day of Worship, Not Sabbath.
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I always liked Wednesday nites. There was never anything good on TV. Tee hee.

-- posted by Migisi