Protestantism

» paper_turtle - & bouncers, too

Where is the church and why do they do that?
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Its in the midwest. They did it in response to what happened in Colorado--but no one locked their doors when all the black churches were burned.
peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» Migisi - & bouncers, too

In response to & bouncers, too posted by paper_turtle:
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Back in the day, my old Catholic church stayed open day and night so anyone could come in and pray. I remember bringing personal prayer offerings and leaving them on the altar.
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Then, the vandalism, theft, and sexual assaults on women started. They started locking up after Mass or other church functions. Sadly, it's a sign of our times.

-- posted by Migisi

» pink101 - & bouncers, too

In response to & bouncers, too posted by paper_turtle:
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We live in particularly dangerous times.
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When G.W.Bush started his warring rant on Iraq, I warned, here, how that would impact on our national attitude toward violence. I think I was correct in my assumptions. Violence begets violence and when our number one national leader sets the example that extreme violence is acceptable behavior for our nation, then, it follows that individuals have that same right in their relationships with each other. Morality is thrown out the window and power claims the day.
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Our chickens are coming home to roost.
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It may or may not be proper for a church to lock its doors and to place strongmen throughout the congregation to protect the assembly from violence; but, it is understandable.
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Wendell has repeatedly made mention of the fact that we have passed the point of no return--the tipping point--and that America has lost its status as a refuge for democracy. I am coming to be less and less hopeful for the future.
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-- posted by pink101

» paper_turtle - & bouncers, too

In response to & bouncers, too posted by Migisi:

Yes, some churches lock up when no one is supposed to be in the building, BUT my friend's church is locking up while people are inside gathered for worship. And don't forget the bouncer, there to physically enforce the peace.

Where I live (more or less in the boonies) most churches are *always* open, or at least are open from sunup to sundown, whether or not there's any church function going on.

peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» paper_turtle - & bouncers, too

In response to & bouncers, too posted by pink101:

It may or may not be proper for a church to lock its doors and to place strongmen throughout the congregation to protect the assembly from violence; but, it is understandable.
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Understandable, *maybe,* but to my mind TOTALLY counter to what Jesus would have done.
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Did Jesus hire bodyguards when he knew his life was in danger? Did he use force when he was arrested? Did he force anyone to do anything?
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A Christian believes in an afterlife. Although the details of the nature of this afterlife may differ, all believe that the next phase of existence is "a better place" than this world. The early Christians welcomed death as a testament to their faith.
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Where is the faith of one who must resort to violence in the house of the Lord?
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And what, do you think, might be a more constructive approach?
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» pink101 - You Are Correct

In response to & bouncers, too posted by paper_turtle:
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You are correct, Dawn. What WOULD Jesus do? I am sure that he would put his trust in the Great Commandment beyond any doubts.
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We live during times when gullibility in the expressed religiosity of our leaders is taking us down the ramp to our slaughter as a free and democratic people.
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I don't know how to write this exactly; but, I see that there is a force that raised Adolph Hitler to power in an attempt to control the world--it lost World War II. But, it appears that "force" only saw that war as a battle that it lost. That "force" appears to be an extra national power outside the control of any national sovereignty. It seems to be "out there" in limbo still at work to achieve its purposes. It is still alive and growing in strength every day. The sociologist, Talcott Parsons, wrote about such groups and called them supernationals. They pay no respect to national borders and are not controlled by them. Now, there is a private military for hire that will do their bidding.
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If I had to guess, I would say its leaders believe they are saving the world from some ultimate destruction--an outgrowth of early twentieth century nihilism.
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Remember! Hitler started out as a devoutly religious Christian.
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-- posted by pink101

» Migisi - & bouncers, too

In response to & bouncers, too posted by paper_turtle:
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BUT my friend's church is locking up while people are inside gathered for worship.
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What's the point - other than giving people a false sense of security? The perpetrator may have entered the building with the churchgoers and be inside already -- as was the case in the first CO shooting incident. Are the churches going to frisk everyone before services, a bake sale, or Bingo?
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I do a lot of school programs with my birds. It does occur to me that an incident could happen anytime while I'm there. In school shootings, it's usually not an outsider, but most often a student (someone who's ~supposed~ to be there) who is the perpetrator.
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This kind of thing can happen (and has happened) ~anywhere~... where ever people gather. It's impossible to predict the who, when, where, and how. The only thing that one can do is to ~minimize~ casualties IF it does happen. I believe having QUALIFIED ARMED security officers is critical. The church security officer who killed the CO shooter saved lives. My hat's off to her.
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What did Jesus do when threatened with death? In some instances which are written in scripture, he fled and hid himself.

-- posted by Migisi

» paper_turtle - & bouncers, too

In response to & bouncers, too posted by Migisi:

I suppose this in incredibly radical of me, and perhaps some will see it as romantic dreaming, but IMO churches would do more to counter such incidents if they engaged in some deep self-examination. Just what causes a person to decide to go on a vioment rampage? It it not, at its root because this person is wounded, and feels unloved, alienated? And (speaking generally) doesn't the shooter most often go after those who he feels have wronged him in some way?
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Seems to my guarding the church as a means of keeping the peace of the sanctuary is just another way of avoiding taking responsibility. And it says, "MY safety is of more value than anyone else's."
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» paper_turtle - You Are Correct

In response to You Are Correct posted by pink101:

I see what you're saying about supernationalists. And to a certain extent I agree. But I tend to think its all about fear. The Nazis came into power by presenting themselves as a means of alleviating the fear caused by WW I and its aftermath. And they maintained an iron hold over the people through fear. Any time the fear button is pushed people--literallly--loose their minds, at least temporarily.

peace and love,
Paper Turtle

PS--Dawn? Who's Dawn? ;)
PT

-- posted by paper_turtle

» Migisi - & bouncers, too

In response to & bouncers, too posted by paper_turtle:
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Just what causes a person to decide to go on a violent rampage?
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From my limited research:
The mass drugging of our society with anti-depressants and other psyche drugs which are KNOWN to cause suicide ('by cop'?) and mass murder. There are explicit warnings all over the drug literature about these 'side effects'. Examine the medical/mental histories of shooters in similar past incidents, and you'll see a ~direct~ link to the use of these psyche drugs.
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I think we should hold the pharmacutical companies, distributors, and doctors liable for these suicides and murders - since they ALL KNOW full well that these drugs cause both.
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Experts say antidepressant drugs cause suicides instead of preventing them
http://www.newstarget.com/019342.html
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MANIA
The shocking link between psychiatric drugs,
suicide, violence and mass murder
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/articl...

-- posted by Migisi