Protestantism

» Brian Tubbs - What think ye of this quote?

Several of you are fans of John F. Kennedy. In light of the current War on Terror (and some of the criticisms that have been leveled against US foreign policy here in these discussion boards), what think ye of this quote from JFK's Inaugural Address?

"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, to assure the survival and the success of liberty"

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» pink101 - What think ye of this quote?

In response to What think ye of this quote? posted by BrianTubbs:

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Well, that was what JFK had to say; but, we've fallen a long way from that in these past several years.
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-- posted by pink101

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» Brian Tubbs - What think ye of this quote?

In response to What think ye of this quote? posted by pink101:

I think one of the reasons why JFK was so popular is that he could eloquently articulate the noblest sentiments of the American vision and character - and this quote is such an example.

From the founding era through Lincoln's "last best hope on earth" speech (referring to the USA) to JFK's speech, Americans have instrinsically seen themselves as the guardians of freedom and hope in the world.

It's a very idealistic vision that has defined some of the most charismatic presidencies in American history, including Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, FDR, JFK, and (yes) Ronald Reagan.

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» pink101 - Diametrically Opposed Leadership Styles

In response to What think ye of this quote? posted by BrianTubbs:
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John Kennedy was in diametric opposition to the direction in which our society is being directed by the Neo-Conservatives.
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He played to the greater potential of the individual and worked to bring equity to the people; whereas, this present administration is the attack dog of unbridled capitalist forces--the gigantic multinationals.
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Kennedy led by vision; whereas, Bush leads with power and fear.
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Two diametrically opposed leadership methods.
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The difference between one leading to the light and one driving people over the precipice.
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-- posted by pink101

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» Brian Tubbs - Diametrically Opposed Leadership Styles

In response to Diametrically Opposed Leadership Styles posted by pink101:

Pink, you are definitely given to exaggeration. I think there are more similarities between GWB and JFK than you care to admit. I'm not saying they were alike, so don't attack that strawman. I'm saying there were SOME similarities.

Both JFK and GWB believe(d) - I'll stick to the present tense from this point forward - that the United States should lead the world in the push for freedom, democracy, and peace.

Both JFK and GWB believe that the United States would, at times, need to make short-term compromises (that would be morally suspect) in order to achieve long-term goals and objectives (provided those long-term objectives fit with a US-led campaign for global freedom, democracy, and peace).

Both were flag-waving, patriotic Americans.

These are just three similarities. You'll also find some in the domestic and economic arena.

Now, I don't want this thread to degenerate (like so many others - and degenerate is the right word) into a rant against all of George W. Bush's alleged misdeeds, corruption, etc. and rallying cries for the people to "rise up" and all that jazz. We've been through all that here - ad nauseum.

Let's focus on the RHETORIC and the VISION of the two men. Okay?

You may believe (probably do) that Bush's actual, tangible, day-to-day agenda is to fatten the pockets of the rich. I am not going to agree with you, but I will ask that you save those accusations for another thread. There are PLENTY to choose from. Instead, let's focus on the stated VISIONS of the two men. The stated goals. The rhetoric. The oratory. Where these men tried to lead America by their words and vision-casting.

If we keep the discussion focused on that, I think you'll find there's considerable overlap.

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» pink101 - Completely Different

In response to Diametrically Opposed Leadership Styles posted by BrianTubbs:
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I'm not sure why you started this thread.
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But, I do know that you try to pick your battles--that has become obvious to most of us.
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However, the idea that this president has similar goals to those held by President Kennedy sets a premise up that the Bush idea of freedom, democracy, and peace is the same as the Kennedy position on those three concepts.
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They are NOT. What Bush means by freedom is far from the progressive vision and the same is true for democracy and peace.
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Kennedy created a vision for America that caused school children to be motivated toward learning science and achieving great advances in society; whereas, Bush puts the kebosh on science. I guess we could go into a lot of detail; but, you probably get my point, e.g., stem-cell research, funding a war of choice; but not health-care for America's children. I don't mean to turn Kennedy into a saint; but, compared to Bush?
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The difference is as stark as the difference between the South and the North when it comes to their ideas of liberty--two completely different understandings.
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-- posted by pink101

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» Brian Tubbs - Picking battles

In response to Completely Different posted by pink101:

But, I do know that you try to pick your battles--that has become obvious to most of us.

What's wrong with that? Don't most people try to "pick their battles"?

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» pink101 - Picking battles

In response to Picking battles posted by BrianTubbs:

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I don't suppose there's anything wrong with picking your battles; except that this is a discussion site and its success depends on the cooperative involvement of all the participants.
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Picking your battles here is questionable when it comes to "fairness" to the group.
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We are--after all--a group.
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-- posted by pink101

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