Protestantism

» pink101 - Which God?

In response to Which God? posted by Migisi:

.
When I was growing up in the Baptist church, we were taught to pray directly to Our Heavenly Father and to ask our prayers in Jesus' name.
.
We had open discussions about the Trinity; but, it was concluded that is was a divisive subject as the Bible is never clear on the subject. So, it was one of those items that was considered up to the individual.
.
The thing that was definitely true of all Baptists before the Fundamentalists came in was that each one's relationship with God was one's own independent situation. We agreed on a lot; but, we also disagreed on a lot. We didn't let our disagreements create any problems--until Fundamentalism entered the scene. I remember that many thought Fundamentalism was a new denomination that was proselytizing the faithful back to a legalistic form of religiosity. It was like being a Catholic.
.
But, in the end, Fundamentalism has won out.
.

-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Old Testament

In response to Fear posted by Migisi:

Migisi,

God did NOT provide a complete revelation of His full nature to the human race from the very beginning of creation. He revealed more and more of His nature and will to humanity as time unfolded.

In the Old Testament period, you do not see an explanation of the Trinity, although there are allusions to it.

In the New Testament, the Trinity (as a term) is not directly mentioned, but the doctrine is on full display. You see it at Jesus' baptism. You see it when Jesus talks of "his Father" and then leaving "the Comforter." You see it when Jesus tells his disciples to baptize in the "name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit," and you see it in I John 5:7, which reads:

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

» Brian Tubbs - Defending the Received Text

Without going into any detail here, I have complete confidence in the Textus Receptus (Received Text) manuscripts that inform the King James Version of the Bible. So, I reject the liberal charges that I John 5:7 is not consistent with the original manuscripts as well as the liberal claims that the Great Commission (where Jesus talks of baptizing in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit) has been corrupted.

For the record, I am NOT a King James extremist. Don't lump me in with the Peter Ruckmanites of the world, please! But I do have scholarly confidence in the Received Text. And thus I stand behind the references to three persons of God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) that we see in the Received Text.

» pink101 - Defending the Received Text

In response to Defending the Received Text posted by BrianTubbs:

.
Here we are with differing ideas.
.
Will we build any understanding about our differences or will we stagger refusing to even take any alternatives into consideration?
.

-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Confidence

In response to Defending the Received Text posted by pink101:

I'm simply stating my confidence in the manuscripts that inform the Bible. Thus, when I see the Godhead portrayed in Scripture (and I include the NT in Scripture), I am confident that those portrayals are divinely inspired and accurate. I'm not censoring anyone else or intending to squelch debate.

» Migisi - Old Testament

In response to Old Testament posted by BrianTubbs:
.
In the New Testament, the Trinity (as a term) is not directly mentioned, but the doctrine is on full display.
.
See my post #54. The 'doctrine' was developed in the late 4th century.
.
You see it at Jesus' baptism.
.
You mean God referring to Jesus as a son? There are several references to 'son of God' besides Jesus in Scripture. Son of God: http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.j...
.
And you mean the dove descending on Jesus? I like birds. Doves or pigeons were symbols of God's spirit, birth, and regeneration in pagan religions too. http://www.adishakti.org/_/dove_represen...
(quote)
.
You see it when Jesus talks of "his Father"
.
Right. Jesus didn't talk about or pray to ~himself~, but to a Father God 'in heaven'. Could Jesus be both Father and Son? Jesus was a son of man, but spiritually a son of God. Genesis 6 talks about other sons of God. So does Paul: Romans 8:14
"because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God."
.
and then leaving "the Comforter."
.
You mean Jesus saying he'd ask God to send a Comforter.
.
Paul acknowledges who that is in 2 Corinthians 1 - 3
"[The God of All Comfort] Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, 4who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves have received from God."
.
Interesting Jewish custom of 'comforters': http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.j...
"...After the burial of the dead, mourners were offered "consolation" by the friends, who made them partake of the mourners' meal and the cup of consolation (see Jer. xvi. 7; compare Ps. lxix. 20; Job xlii. 11). These friends, called "comforters," are frequently mentioned in the Bible (see Lam. i. 2 et seq.; Eccl. iv. 1; II Sam. x. 2; Job xvi. 2; Ps. lxix. 20; Nahum iii. 7),..."
.
Note in John 14:15, it reads "...He [God] will give you another Comforter to be with you forever - the Spirit of Truth." Who was the first Comforter, if there was 'another' to come? Jesus qualifies this Comforter as "The Spirit of Truth". That would be GOD's Spirit.
.
Jesus identifies in JOHN 14:25 - "...But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit..." which, again, is GOD's Spirit.
.
You see it when Jesus tells his disciples to baptize in the "name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit,"
.
IF Jesus did indeed say this to his disciples, why didn't the apostles do it??
Acts 2:38 - "And Peter said to them, "Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
Acts 10:48, "And he [Peter] ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ..."
Acts 19:5, "And when they heard this, they were baptized [by Paul] in the name of the Lord Jesus."
.
and you see it in I John 5:7, which reads: "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
.
This verse is called the 'Johannine Comma', and it's not found in the majority of Greek manuscripts.... There are about 500 existing manuscripts of 1 John 5 that do not contain the Comma. (Source: http://av1611.com/kjbp/faq/holland_1jo5_... )

-- posted by Migisi

» pink101 - Confidence

In response to Confidence posted by BrianTubbs:
.
I'm not censoring anyone else or intending to squelch debate.
.
It's not a matter of censorship.
.
You cannot expect people to buy into your position simply because you say that you have any confidence or because you believe that your references are devinly inspired and accurate. You come here and tell people--outright--that they are wrong. And, then you pull God down from Heaven to make your point.
.
How does that help anyone? In order to get anything out of you, your opposition must bow down to your belief system and accept your authority--period. You cannot handle any objectivity. That's a problem.
.
Figure it out.
.
.

-- posted by pink101

» redback - Tis so...Tis not

In response to Contrived At Best posted by Migisi:

"Numbers 23:19 states that God is not a man."

and the other cited Bible references refers.

I referred to 1 Timothy 2:5 earlier:

"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

I don't know how this is meant to be a consistent reference to either a Trinity or that Jesus is NOT man. What am I missing?

-- posted by redback

» Migisi - Tis ...Tis... This

In response to Tis so...Tis not posted by redback:
.
I don't know how this is meant to be a consistent reference to either a Trinity or that Jesus is NOT man. What am I missing?
.
You're not missing much. "...One mediator between God and men..." - the equation being God + Mediator + Man. In Psalm 82:6 and John 10:34-35, God and Jesus said men were gods to whom the word of God came. So, it sounds like a supernatural threesome to me. (wink and )

-- posted by Migisi

» Brian Tubbs - Confidence

In response to Confidence posted by pink101:

Pink, I'm expressing my beliefs. I don't believe you're characterizing my position or attitude fairly here. But, I hear you. You've made your point. I don't agree, but you've made the point about me you want to make. Not sure where to go from here. Unless I agree with you and Migisi on the Trinity, I'm not being "objective."