Protestantism

» Brian Tubbs - Ad Hominem

In response to Ad Hominem posted by pink101:

He's "fair game" in the sense that you have the right to criticize him and verbally attack him - and organize political opposition to him. And on and on.

I'm saying that we ALL need to improve the tone and substance of political discourse in America. There's little civility anymore. In fact, groups like MoveOn.org actively discourage civility.

It's not a good thing for civil democracy. Not good at all.

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» pink101 - Ad Hominem

In response to Ad Hominem posted by BrianTubbs:

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I understand your concern.
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Do you think it's civility what's going on in the Middle East?
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-- posted by pink101

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» Migisi - Ad Hominem

In response to Ad Hominem posted by BrianTubbs:
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There's little civility anymore. In fact, groups like MoveOn.org actively discourage civility. It's not a good thing for civil democracy. Not good at all.
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Nasty politics? Puhleez! Get a historic grip.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1021/p09s0...
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(Quote).........
"Andrew Jackson was described by his opponents as a drunkard, bigamist, adulterer, gambler, and murderer. Abraham Lincoln likewise was viewed as an "awful woeful ass," a "dictator," a "coarse vulgar joker," and a "grotesque baboon." To Republicans in 1884, Grover Cleveland was a "lecherous beast," an "obese nincompoop," and a "drunken sot." ...
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"Is incivility a new and growing threat to American politics? No. American politics has always been robust, edgy, overstated, and "simplistic." Today's much-bemoaned 30-second attack ads are surely no more irrational, emotionally provocative, or unfair than posters of elephants stomping on Communism and New Dealism, which are meant to be viewed as two peas in a pod, according to the postermaker.
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"Only in the eyes of certain elites is our politics today more than ordinarily nasty. And the solutions to that nastiness just happen to augment the influence of those very elites. Though they argue for a transcendence of the Founders' low expectations for American politics, even they live down to them. In the closing days of this election season, American citizens should celebrate, enjoy, and throw themselves into the exasperating, wonderful spectacle of our presidential election.
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"And when they hear complaints about our debased politics, they should reflect on this lament: "The age of statesmen is gone.... God save the Republic ... from the buffoon and gawk ... we have for President."
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"That was the 'New York World' in 1864, commenting on the renomination of Abraham Lincoln." (end)
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The article is worth reading, IMO.

-- posted by Migisi

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» Brian Tubbs - Good point, Migisi

In response to Ad Hominem posted by Migisi:

Name-calling goes back a long ways. I agree, Migisi, and have taught that in my history classes. The 1800 election between Jefferson and Adams, for instance, remains one of the nastiest in U.S. history. It's amazing those two reconciled their friendship.

But, I think the Internet, TV, and radio have ratcheted things up quite a bit. Political nastiness was expressed via newspapers and rallies back then. It's constantly in front of us today, and is fueled and perpetuated 24/7 by our modern electronic media (and by tens of millions of Internet users).

It's a whole new ball game.

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» pink101 - Good point, Migisi

In response to Good point, Migisi posted by BrianTubbs:
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The word, tyrant, can be seen as an ad-hominem. It means a cruel and oppressive dictator.
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I believe in calling a spade a spade. The idea that I shouldn't use a descriptive word to define another person amounts to what is considered politically correct speech.
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Recently, I used the word, bastard, with some of the letters bleeked out. I shouldn't have done that. I should have included all the letters.
Three out of the five definitions apply to my use at this site: http://www.onelook.com/?w=bastard&ls=a
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Quick definitions (bastard)
# noun: derogatory term for a variation that is not genuine; something irregular or inferior or of dubious origin (Example: "The architecture was a kind of bastard suggesting Gothic but not true Gothic")
# noun: the illegitimate offspring of unmarried parents
# noun: insulting terms of address for people who are stupid or irritating or ridiculous
# adjective: born out of wedlock
# adjective: fraudulent; having a misleading appearance
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The man is a bastard in my thoughts.
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-- posted by pink101

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» Migisi - Good point, Migisi

In response to Good point, Migisi posted by BrianTubbs:
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It's constantly in front of us today, and is fueled and perpetuated 24/7 by our modern electronic media (and by tens of millions of Internet users). ... It's a whole new ball game.
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Yes, it is. And I'm glad for it. The 'great unwashed' have a new information source now, a new vehicle for expressing and sharing their opinions. They no longer need to rely on the newspapers and TV stations - which are owned by a handful of corporate elitists who have their own political agendas. And they can get a global 'big picture' of world events, issues, and opinions - and not just the sanitized American version. And they don't need to attend pep rallies or fork out campaign contributions to hear a candidate speak. It's all on You Tube - including their bloopers. Hurrah for the internet!!
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I suggest that if we all were singing Bush's praises here, you wouldn't object so much, right? (wink)

-- posted by Migisi

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» Migisi - Good point, Migisi

In response to Good point, Migisi posted by pink101:

Reminds me of a real-life story.
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My dad and 6-year old brother Ed were out in the garage working on the broken lawn mower. Ed was a big help. Dad had taught him the names of all the tools in his tool box. So, when Dad asked for a 1/4 inch ratchet, Ed knew what it was and brought it. My dad was known for his cursing when he got frustrated (which was often). Dad commanded Ed, "Go get me the bastard file, Ed". Ed replied matter-of-factly, "Okay Dad. I'll get the son-of-a-b*%@h". Ahh... childhood memories.

-- posted by Migisi

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» pink101 - Good point, Migisi

In response to Good point, Migisi posted by Migisi:

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Yupper...
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-- posted by pink101

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» Brian Tubbs - Watch the language

In response to Good point, Migisi posted by pink101:
Keep things family-friendly, alright. We have parents, teens and kids (particularly for school projects) that occasionally surf through this site. Please refrain from language that our society recognizes as cursing. Calling someone the b-word qualifies as cursing, and should be avoided.

Suite101's policies are clear: "You may not use the Website to send or post messages or material that are unlawful, harassing, libelous, defamatory, abusive, threatening, harmful, vulgar, obscene, profane, sexually-oriented, threatening, racially offensive, inaccurate, or otherwise objectionable."

I have bolded the adjectives that describe the violations seen in this thread. So, please.....cease and desist.

Pink, if you see this as an enforcement of "politically correct speech," so be it. The policy stands, and I will enforce it.

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» pink101 - An A +

In response to Watch the language posted by BrianTubbs:
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Pink, if you see this as an enforcement of "politically correct speech," so be it. The policy stands, and I will enforce it.
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I understand your concern.
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And, I will use more discretion per your request. However, you and the higher levels of management might reconsider your idea of what is and is not acceptable language. I disagree that the "b-" word is even close to being as defamatory, obscene, profane, or otherwise objectionable as the Iraqi War of Occupation is itself. So, I see words that give support to that war as being far more defamatory, obscene, profane, or otherwise objectionable than the use of some word. (Sticks and stones?) It would be nice if some of the folk who participate here could be a little more family friendly with their comments of support for Bush and his gang of Neo-Cons.
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Shouldn't we dispense with the wrangling? It wastes our time and our energies.
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BTW, your article on the Civil War was excellent--concise and to the point. I give you an A + on it.
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-- posted by pink101

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