Protestantism

» pink101 - Back To Basics

In response to Necessary Wars posted by Migisi:
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I think the problem that surfaces with Brian's complaint is about ideology and how we are being divided as a nation.
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The very idea that a war is necessary says more about the events that lead up to it rather than the excuses given for engaging in it. History will judge the Bush era with a harshness no other president has ever received. He had opportunities for great advantage and he squandered them. I believe the blood of the dead and the maimed due to the War of Occupation in Iraq is on the hands of those people that supported his fool headed rush to judgment. And I accuse the christian right for their hypocrtical stance of being the ones that did more than any other class in making the war possible.
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How can I make such a seemingly outrageous statement? Easy! Very easy. We can all see how the big multinationals made galloping profits on the war--they always do. We suspect the Neo-Cons want the war to throw the world into such an imbalance that nothing will settle things short of an all out nuking that will decimate the world's population and rid it completely of certain groups. But, no one in their right mind would ever support such ends. So, it is absolutely necessary to have some ideological group lend its moral support in order to get things "kick-started" and that is where the christian right comes in. The Iraq Invasion and its subsequent War of Occupation got to be the christian thing to do against the enemies of Jehovah God.
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You can shake that out any way you like; but, the core of it is that christian right is what keeps the Republican Party's nose above water.
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Sound a little on the radical side? Radical as in back to basics?
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This whole mess is a continuation of the wars that have raged where eastern and western civilizations have come into contact with us from the get-go. It's an old, old story--very old. And, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to get it.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - quick answer to Migisi

In response to Necessary Wars posted by Migisi:

Only have time for a quick response, but you cited the Somalis and implied (pretty much said) that we've turned our backs on them. We tried to help the Somalis. Bush Sr. sent 20,000 Marines in to restore peace and get the food supplies going, then helped transition it to UN and African oversight. But...well, one thing led to another and we had the "Black Hawk Down" incident with bodies of our soldiers being dragged through the streets. So, we tried to help them.

» Brian Tubbs - The Surprise of Your Life

In response to The Surprise of Your Life posted by pink101:

I'm not referring to your telling me to visit a VA hospital. THAT part was not the attack on me, Pink. Go back and re-read your post in question, and you'll see (if you're at all objective) the heated passion being directed at me personally.

As for Iraq, I supported (as an ordinary citizen with no real influence, I might add) Bush's initial decision to invade Iraq and take out Saddam - just as Hillary Clinton did and just as the overwhelming majority of the Congress did. So, don't give me that nonsense about me and the Christian Right being responsible for this war. It's pure bunk.

» pink101 - Knight Of The Mirrors

In response to The Surprise of Your Life posted by BrianTubbs:
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"...don't give me that nonsense about me and the Christian Right being responsible for this war. It's pure bunk."
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If you read my answer to the question of how the christian right is responsible for the War of Occupation in Iraq, you will see that my claim is not, "pure bunk", as you say.
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Right now, some 31 percent of the American people continue to give their support to Bush. They make up the christian base of the Republican Party--the die hards.
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I think my comment in the "Bible" thread about Bush filling the role Noah played in building the Ark applies to this situation. How many followers of the biblicist line see the world as being filled with evil people God wants to destroy through Neo-Con wars? How many of them compare Bush to Noah?
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I might attack your ideas--you attack mine--and your hypocritical stance; but, I don't attack you.
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Remember Don Quixote when he was confronted by that knight? Seeing ourself in the mirror might be what the entire story was all about.
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Of course, I include myself. I am far from perfect in almost every respect. And, I am hypocritical as well; but, I can admit to it. Can you?
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The Knight of The Mirrors stands in front of every one of us.
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-- posted by pink101

» pink101 - I Am Very Surprised

In response to The Surprise of Your Life posted by BrianTubbs:

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I am very surprised with the attitude that pro-Iraqi War of Occupation have toward veterans.
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The idea that anyone who stands up against them is attacking their "rights" is a pain where a pill cannot reach.
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Here is a video I CHALLENGE you to watch from beginning to end.
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http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/11/12...
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Let me know how it grabs you, please.
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-- posted by pink101

» Migisi - quick answer to Migisi

In response to quick answer to Migisi posted by BrianTubbs:
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We tried to help the Somalis. Bush Sr. sent 20,000 Marines in to restore peace and get the food supplies going, then helped transition it to UN and African oversight. But...well, one thing led to another and we had the "Black Hawk Down" incident with bodies of our soldiers being dragged through the streets. So, we tried to help them.
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My short answer: Tried to help the Somalis? Like we've helped the Iraqis?
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Black Hawk Down: Somalia in 1992-93
http://www.twf.org/News/Y2002/0119-Somal...
(quote) "On December 12, 1992, the U.S. sent 28,000 soldiers into Somalia under the cover of the United Nations Operation in Somalia (UNOSOM) in what they said was a "humanitarian mission" to bring food to starving people. The invasion came when a several-year drought that had taken tens of thousands of lives was actually abating. At the time, the evening news showed images of thousands of starving Somalis. What people didn't see was U.S. troops 'not delivering food' but instead engaged in daily gun battles and bombing raids in heavily populated neighborhoods. In ten months, more than 10,000 Somalis died as the U.S. engaged in aggressive military action against those who resisted.
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"In reporting on the U.S./UN Operation in Somalia (UNOSOM), the human rights organization Africa Rights stated that troops "have engaged in abuses of human rights, including killing of civilians, physical abuse, theft. Many UNOSOM soldiers have also displayed unacceptable levels of racism toward Somalis." These abuses included opening fire with machine guns against unarmed protesters, firing missiles into residential areas and outright murder of civilians, including many youth. The report states "UNOSOM has become an army of occupation." (end quote)
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Read the entire article, Brian. Like the Iraqis, the Somalis don't want or need this kind of (ehem) 'help'.

-- posted by Migisi

» Migisi - I Am Very Surprised

In response to I Am Very Surprised posted by pink101:

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Tragedy and an outrage ... on SO many levels.
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Bush & generals don't give a s*^t about our boys and girls in uniform. "It [war] feeds the rich while it buries the poor..." (Guns N Roses). They only give 'support our troops' lip service. ALL veterans should be marching in the streets -- in protest! WHERE ARE YOU GUYS??
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-- posted by Migisi

» Brian Tubbs - Noah

In response to Knight Of The Mirrors posted by pink101:

I've never heard Bush compared with Noah, and I've certainly never made that comparison.

» Brian Tubbs - This thread

I regret that, once again, a thread has degenerated into Bush-bashing and a vehicle for MoveOn.org style anti-war propaganda. It was started merely as a thank-you to veterans, and that's where I'd like to leave it.

» pink101 - This thread

In response to This thread posted by BrianTubbs:
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It is impossible to discuss veterans without taking the present War of Occupation into consideration.
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You--as an individual--can leave it and stay away from the controversy; but, the controversy exists and it is appropriate to this thread. If you have a point to make, you should make it and not complain that someone else sees things differently. The 'Net is about communication among the participants.
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Later.

-- posted by pink101