Protestantism

» pink101 - Thought

In response to Thought posted by GodChsr:
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I'm urging every reader to carefully read what GodChsr is saying in his most recent post here.
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Get a grasp on the central idea being expressed. It definitely represents the position of a person who believes the United States has a manifest destiny to control and own the entire world piece by piece--the easy ones first and then, eventually, the rest including China.
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Consider this:
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It's like a cutoff man in baseball... rather than flying across the world to fight a war just send a smaller group of guys to Iraq, get in alot of planes and bomb.
We achieved the first of these strategic point back in the 50s after WW2, that was Alaska and Hawaii.
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Alaska and Hawaii?
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What the.....
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-- posted by pink101

» Migisi - The Hypocritical christian Right, School Vouchers, IRAQ

In response to The Hypocritical christian Right, School Vouchers, IRAQ posted by redback:
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Ah...the weight of anecdotal evidence.
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I had included a lot more anecdotal evidence, but edited it for brevity. No point in belaboring my point.
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I have a profound hope I will NOT know ALL who irk me for all reasons but I keep getting told just because I don't know it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
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It's good to overlook/ignore most 'irkings' -- for our own mental well being.
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But more challenging is to link it all to a...school voucher, Iraq et al. Christians are given too much 'credit', perhaps?
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Here's an article re vouchers, which might help explain the situation:
July 18, 2006
National School Voucher Legislation Announced By Congressional Leaders and Education Secretary -- Bill will mislead parents and funnel money away from public schools
http://www.nea.org/newsreleases/2006/nr0...
(quote) "WASHINGTON -- Republican leaders from the House and Senate joined Education Secretary Margaret Spellings today to announce the introduction of national school voucher legislation dubbed "opportunity scholarships" by supporters.
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"This is just the same old school voucher song with a different verse," said Reg Weaver, NEA president. "These lawmakers know that voters have rejected 'school vouchers' every time they've been proposed, so now they're disguising them as 'scholarships.' Voucher programs rob public school students of scarce resources. No matter what politicians call them, vouchers threaten the basic right of every child to attend a quality public school."
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"The America's Opportunity Scholarships for Kids Act would provide grants to states, school districts and non-profit organizations for "scholarships" to allow disadvantaged students in underperforming public schools to attend private schools at taxpayer expense.
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"The "scholarship" model in the legislation is nearly identical to school voucher proposals that have been consistently rejected by Congress. Legislators repeatedly resisted attempts to include private school vouchers in the so-called No Child Left Behind Act in 2001. President Bush has proposed private school vouchers in each of his budgets since then, but the proposals were not considered by Congress.
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"Weaver noted that lawmakers can better help students in underperforming schools by adequately funding those schools. The so-called No Child Left Behind Act is underfunded by over $40 billion. Congress last year cut funding by another $1 billion, and now the 2007 fiscal year spending bill reported by the House Appropriations Committee would cut another $500 million.
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"In addition to these shortfalls, programs to help public schools have been neglected. School improvement grants created under the law have never been funded. These grants would help schools that have failed to meet Adequate Yearly Progress for at least two years address their shortcomings.
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"The buzzword in education today is accountability, yet school vouchers divert scarce public school dollars to unaccountable private schools," Weaver said. "Private school students are not required to take federally mandated tests, private school teachers do not have to meet 'highly qualified' standards and private schools do not have to show Adequate Yearly Progress. Public schools can, and should, be held accountable, but lawmakers need to provide the resources to get the job done." (end article)
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And this power of the vote thingo. Maybe voting impotently releases tensions like yelling out the window: "I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!" but the true power of the vote is related to who pays the biggest price for buying it...or selling it for that matter.
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He who has the highest pile (of money) wins.
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This year my voting cynicism increases. The billions that could have been spent alleviating many ills are instead going in promised tax cuts by both parties.
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Bush did that. We were supposed to jump for joy when we received $300 from the feds. Whooppee! But he did this...
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War costs could total $1.6 trillion by 2009, panel estimates
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/13/h...
(quote) "The total war costs could grow to $3.5 trillion by 2017, the committee estimated...."The committee calculated the average cost of both wars for a family of four would be $20,900 from 2002 to 2008. The cost for a family of four would go up to $46,400 from 2002 to 2017, the committee said." (end)
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What if we all refused to pay?

-- posted by Migisi

» Migisi - Thought

In response to Thought posted by GodChsr:
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I love 'armchair coaches'. They can recite all the stats, can plot the winning strategies, and can predict which team will win the Super Bowl. And then --- their favorite receiver is out of position - defensive linemen rush the quarterback - he throws a hail mary and then gets sacked - the ball is downed - all with 2 seconds left on the clock. They lose. The armchair coaches cry in their beer, pay off their bets, and say "we'll beat em next year".
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In the war game we're playing -- we've got 5 minutes left on the clock.
http://www.thebulletin.org/minutes-to-mi... and http://www.thebulletin.org/minutes-to-mi...
When that clock runs out, there will be no winner and no 'next year'.

-- posted by Migisi

» Brian Tubbs - Thank you, Roger

In response to The Hypocritical christian Right, School Vouchers, IRAQ posted by rogerws76:

A breath of fresh air and a voice of reason has joined our discussion ranks. Welcome, brother. Welcome.

» Brian Tubbs - Irony

In response to Thought posted by Migisi:

Migisi, the irony is that much of what you write can be turned back against YOU and your side. There are tens of millions of people in the world today that want to destroy the United States of America or at least kill as many Americans they can. They are at war with us, no matter how many peace signs you and the Cindy Sheehans of the world want to raise. They want to kill us. Period. Many of them are willing to blow up their own children to do it. We are at war, Migisi. That's a fact. And it was a fact BEFORE Iraq!

You're right that there will be no perfect happy endings to this, but we as a nation must take measures to protect ourselves. And that means protecting Americans here at home AND Americans abroad. And it means protecting our nation's vital and just interests as well.

» Migisi - Irony

In response to Irony posted by BrianTubbs:
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Migisi, the irony is that much of what you write can be turned back against YOU and your side.
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How's that?
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There are tens of millions of people in the world today that want to destroy the United States of America or at least kill as many Americans they can. They are at war with us,...They want to kill us. Period.
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If it's true that 'tens of millions' want to kill us all, why do you suppose that is, Brian?
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Many of them are willing to blow up their own children to do it.
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Well, we're willing to blow up our own children to kill them, aren't we. (There's your irony.)
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We are at war, Migisi. That's a fact. And it was a fact BEFORE Iraq!
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Too true. We're ALWAYS at war. How come?
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You're right that there will be no perfect happy endings to this, but we as a nation must take measures to protect ourselves. And that means protecting Americans here at home AND Americans abroad.
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How have we 'protected' our nation and Americans abroad by intiating a war in Iraq and occupying it for years?
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And it means protecting our nation's vital and just interests as well.
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What are 'vital' and 'just' interests? Gimme examples of what you mean.
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For a Jesus freak, you sure do rattle your saber a lot. Would that be hypocrisy or irony?

-- posted by Migisi

» Migisi - Irony

In response to Irony posted by BrianTubbs:

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no matter how many peace signs you and the Cindy Sheehans of the world want to raise.
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You can criticize me and my plea for peace all you want, but you disrespect the mother of an American fallen soldier, and others like her. Shame on you.

-- posted by Migisi

» Brian Tubbs - Cindy Sheehan

In response to Irony posted by Migisi:

Cindy Sheehan has shamed and disrespected her son by calling Iraqi insurgents - you know, the people who kill and blow up American soldiers - "freedom fighters." She crossed the line by saying that and her rhetoric deserves to be condemned.

But if you re-read my post, I didn't condemn Sheehan personally - as you imply. Re-read it again. And then think back to your gradeschool review of Patrick Henry's famous speech -- "Gentlemen may cry peace, peace, but there is no peace." When Henry said that, he wasn't condemning anyone. He was just pointing out the obvious. As am I.

So get off your 'shame on you' high horse.

» pink101 - Cindy Sheehan

In response to Cindy Sheehan posted by BrianTubbs:
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Your disrespect for Sheehan is about the same as that jerk preacher who protests at the burial ceremonies of Americans who have died in the line of duty.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Saber rattling

In response to Irony posted by Migisi:

Jesus told his disciples to buy swords, Migisi.

With all due respect to the Quakers (and I mean that - Wilmington College is down the street from where I live), the Bible does NOT teach complete pacifism.

Individuals have the right to defend themselves (this is seen even back in the mosaic law; when Nehemiah armed the builders of the wall; and, again, when Jesus told his disciples to buy swords) and GOVERNMENTS have the right to "bear the sword" to protect their people (Romans 13). So...

I'm not being a hypocrite or ironic here, Migisi. If I believed that the Bible teaches peace in ALL circumstances, THEN I'd be a hypocrite. But that's NOT what the Bible teaches.

I will grant, however, that the Bible (Jesus in particular) comes out pretty strongly against retribution. But not self-defense or national defense. Those are sanctioned in Scripture.