Protestantism

» pink101 - Preacher as President

In response to Preacher as President posted by redback:

I think I remember when our current president was sort of waffling on some issue of importance to the Religionist agendae that there was a big hubabaloo to call him back into line. That is, speaking of promises. Once a Religionist power base gets to feeling its oats, I think it will be curtains for secularism.
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Didn't I just read in one of these threads where Brian was calling secularism the enemy? I would say that the Religionist Right wants to squash secular society and to replace it with a raging sectarianism like is so rampant in the Middle East.
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Can you imagine America as a sectarian state?
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Hate group factors

In response to what facts? posted by Migisi:

Migisi, there are OTHER factors playing into this. You and Pink are focusing on ONE aspect - Christianity. I grew up in a fundamentalist, ultra-legalistic, rural Independent Baptist church. I can attest to the factor there were some influences IN that church that put a spin on Christianity which wasn't very healthy. But those influences weren't from the Bible - they were from other aspects of the southern, rural culture.

What you two need to remember is that CHRISTIANITY pre-dates the American South! What's more, TRADITIONAL, ORTHODOX, and (though the term wasn't used as such) EVANGELICAL Christianity pre-dates the American South. And...fundamentalism...defined as an allegiance to the fundamental tenets of the Christian faith also pre-dates the American South. In fact, it's been around since the dawn of Christianity itself.

» Brian Tubbs - Here we go again...

In response to Preacher as President posted by pink101:

This whole post of yours, Pink, is yet another example of extremist thinking. It's not secularism or 'raging sectarianism.' You've framed the issue in two opposing poles. You're either a secularist or you're a religionist. No middle ground with you. Well, sorry, Pink, you're completely and totally wrong to frame it that way.

Speaking as a Christian and a conservative, I can ASSURE you I don't want a sectarian state. I don't want the Bible replacing the US Constitution. I don't want a denominational or religious tribunal of some kind replacing the Supreme Court or the Congress. I don't want the President being the Head Religious Leader of our nation like the king of England is the head of the Anglican Church. I don't want church and state synonomous as institutions. I don't want any of that! Okay?

But I also don't want America going to the other extreme, where God and religion are driven from the public square. This nation, from its very founding, has always had a respectful relationship with God and people of faith. It needs to remain that way. There IS a middle ground here!

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article...

» pink101 - Here we go again...

In response to Here we go again... posted by BrianTubbs:

Your problem is that you're taking my post personal.
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Wrong.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Broad brush

In response to Here we go again... posted by pink101:

My problem is that you paint w/ too broad a brush. Yeah, I might get defensive when I feel that you're painting me too. But my biggest problem is that the brush itself is way too big.

I don't believe Jerry Falwell or D James Kennedy wanted a religious tribunal, a pope-like President, or a legal conjoining of church and state (institutionally speaking). Most Christian conservatives don't want that. Very few, in fact, do.

» pink101 - Here we go again...

In response to Here we go again... posted by BrianTubbs:
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But I also don't want America going to the other extreme, where God and religion are driven from the public square. This nation, from its very founding, has always had a respectful relationship with God and people of faith. It needs to remain that way. There IS a middle ground here!
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That's like saying I don't want to see the moon shot out of the sky. Only a very small group of people want "God and religion...driven from the public square". That's paranoia. America relationship with "God and people of faith" is not threatened by secularism. The thing that is threatening that relationship is the aggression of the Religionist Right--people like Pat Robertson and the late Falwell and Kennedy. And, we're grown ups here, Brian. We watch tv and we see the Religionists and we hear their spiels to take America back for God. They harp on the idea that America was founded to be a Christian nation. They want the courts to decide in favor of religion. You know that as do the rest of us. Don't turn yourself into a straw man. Religionism is a threat to our society--it is a threat to the peace of the world. Everyone knows it. America will not allow Religionism to take away our liberty.
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What's keeping George W. Bush from identifying a few dozen top journalists as enemies of the state under the Patriot Act and putting them in solitary confinement tonite? He could do that, you know.
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-- posted by pink101

» redback - Preacher as President

In response to Preacher as President posted by pink101:

Has Brian suggested above the Queen of England has abdicated and there's now a King??!! It has to be crazy Charles 11, doesn't it?

Well, don't you worry, Pink. In the leaders election debate last night, our Prime Minister said he & his Party was the only one with any chance of influence over whoever's in power in the USA. Don't let the bed bugs bite!

-- posted by redback

» Brian Tubbs - King, Queen, whatever :-)

In response to Preacher as President posted by redback:

My apologies to Her Majesty. I was thinking of George III and the founding era when I typed what I said - even though it came out present tense.

» Brian Tubbs - Take America back for God

In response to Here we go again... posted by pink101:

...we hear their spiels to take America back for God

I've never liked that phrase, because as my dad told me, this nation has never really been completely devoted to God in its morals and conduct. We've ALWAYS fallen short of God's glory, because of our sins, and we shouldn't fix our minds on the past in that manner.

That said, much of the rhetoric about "taking America for God" refers to personal evangelism and then cultural and political efforts to achieve a Judeo-Christian morality. While you may disagree with them on these things, they have as much right to advocate these things as other interest groups have to advocate for their agendas. Christians wanting to move America toward a stronger morality have as much right to play in the policy sandbox as the AFL-CIO, the NAACP, the People for the American Way, the ACLU, MoveOn.org, and a host of other groups.

» redback - King, Queen, whatever :-)

In response to King, Queen, whatever :-) posted by BrianTubbs:

I'm sure she would say: "WE are not amused" but I found it funny.

But if your Head of State, George Bush lived as far away from you as our HoS, Queen Lizzy does from Australia, would you feel he belongs to the USA? She looks closely like my mother but basically, I'm a republican vainly looking for a suitable Presidential role model.

-- posted by redback