Protestantism

» Brian Tubbs - Obama

In response to What is Religion's Role in Politics posted by Migisi:

To answer Migisi, right now, I lean toward Huckabee. But, looking at the Democratic side of things, I would rather have Obama (I think) than Hillary as President.

» Brian Tubbs - More To The Point

In response to More To The Point posted by Migisi:

A moment of silence forces people to be....

Silent

There is no imposition of religion there. It is an imposition of time of reflection. Quite frankly, young people SHOULD be taught to take quiet moments each day to REFLECT - to think!

Obviously, as a Christian, I hope people will take that time to think about God or at least issues of faith, but I have no control over that - nor do I want control over that. A person's thoughts are a person's thoughts. I'm not into thought control. Never have been. Never will be. But I am inclined to encourage people to THINK.

Nothing wrong with a moment of silence. Nothing at all.

» Migisi - More To The Point

In response to More To The Point posted by BrianTubbs:
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There is no imposition of religion there.
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It's a foot in the school door. Everybody knows that.

-- posted by Migisi

» Brian Tubbs - More To The Point

In response to More To The Point posted by Migisi:

Migisi, fifty years ago, prayer was not only legal, but encouraged in many if not most public schools. As was Bible study, for that matter. In the 1960s and 70s, the country swung to the OTHER extreme. Now, I think it's time we settle down on this issue (I mean "we" as in the American public) and agree on some middle ground. A moment of silence strikes me as such a middle ground step. It's a foot in the door for moderation. And I'm all for that.

» pink101 - I Cannot Remember

In response to More To The Point posted by BrianTubbs:
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Brian writes, "...fifty years ago, prayer was not only legal, but encouraged in many if not most public schools. "
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Fifty years ago, what?
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I graduated from high school 58 years ago. We didn't have school prayer. I cannot remember a single time when there was prayer in school. But, there were Bible clubs. They met after all schools hours had ended. I think, at first, during lunch hour, then changed to after official school hours.
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But, I attended a one room country school house in the late 1930s and into the 1940s. Three years of it. At role call in the morning when our name was called, we had to stand up and quote a Bible verse or something else of social value. Even in that rural setting, we never had school prayer.
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I think you're referring to the beginning of the fight between America and some religious factions that wanted to impress their will on the rest of us.
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-- posted by pink101

» Migisi - More To The Point

In response to More To The Point posted by BrianTubbs:
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Migisi, fifty years ago, prayer was not only legal, but encouraged in many if not most public schools.
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I don't remember prayers in any public school I attended back then, Bri. Just the Pledge of Allegiance recited daily. I think the legality/encouragement of it largely depended on the school district and in what state (Bible belt?). Nor was there any Bible study on any campus I was at. There were, however, courses in Sociology which studied world religions.
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In the 1960s and 70s, the country swung to the OTHER extreme.
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Well yes, it did swing to the other extreme - not towards atheism, but spirituality. As I recollect (having lived in that era), the Jesus Movement began in the late 60s, early 70s - a manifestation of the hippie movement. The Jesus Freaks pushed for Jesus in all the schools. The Movement itself petered out in the 80s, after the Jesus Freaks became disillusioned when faith promises (prosperity, spiritual gifts, healing) didn't pan out. They became responsible wage-earning, business owning, right-wing Republicans. (wink and )
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A moment of silence strikes me as such a middle ground step. It's a foot in the door for moderation.
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Nah. It's the Religious Right sneaking in the back door - since they can't get through the Constitutional front door. Our Governor is on very shaky political ground. He and his pals have made a real mess of things and he needs all the votes he can get. He's just playing to the religious sector. Just another political stunt.

-- posted by Migisi

» Brian Tubbs - Prayer in Schools

Migisi and Pink, I was careful not to say that all public schools encouraged prayer and Bible study fifty years ago. I said "many, if not most" did.

I know of several individuals who lived in that time-frame and they recall mandatory prayers before lunches and at graduation assemblies. (In fact, the latter remained legal until the 1990s). Prayer at football games. Prayer at pep rallies. And so forth.

If prayer wasn't an active part of public school life, then there wouldn't have been such a controversial firestorm after Madalyn Murray O'Hare's Supreme Court case in the early 1960s.

Of course....the Founding Fathers had no problem with religion in public education. The Bible was one of the first textbooks in public schools, after all, and many of the Founders (including Noah Webster - yes, the dictionary dude) wanted to keep it that way! But, alas, the Founders lost this fight and the Constitution was redefined.

» pink101 - Prayer in Schools

In response to Prayer in Schools posted by BrianTubbs:
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I have an idea those schools where they had "mandatory prayers before lunches and at graduation assemblies" were mostly in the South where racial segregation was also practiced.
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On the Sunday afternoon before high school graduation, there would be a religious ceremony at a church near the high school. The Seniors met at the school, put on their graduation gowns and caps and walked in file to the church where there was a service. It was an extra curricular assembly and attendance by seniors was not mandatory. But, most attended. I can't recall the name of that ritual; but, I'm sure it was practiced across the entire United States in public high schools. There were some speakers and I recall a preacher giving a sermon directed at the senior class. Of course there were prayers. After the service, everyone gathered outside with their friends and parents. What was it called? Graduation Sunday?
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Is that not done any more? Maybe local churches have their own services for the graduating class.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Prayer in Schools

In response to Prayer in Schools posted by pink101:

I have an idea those schools where they had "mandatory prayers before lunches and at graduation assemblies" were mostly in the South where racial segregation was also practiced.

Do you have evidence to support your "idea"?

I think some of the great abolitionist preachers of the past, like Henry Ward Beecher, would be quite offended at your association of vigorous, public Christianity with racism and segregation.

» pink101 - Prayer in Schools

In response to Prayer in Schools posted by BrianTubbs:

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Do you have evidence to support your "idea"?
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No. It is just my idea and it comes to me from the hyper religiosity that seems so evident out of the South.
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-- posted by pink101