Protestantism

» redback - Christian is as "Christian" does

In response to Redback's Post posted by pink101:

Migisi "You do have the patience of JC. Tee hee"
seems appropriate here, too. ABC

Pink: Cont'd from the previous post:

"So, do you have a "christian" party--as such--in Australia?"

I can't recall my previous answers to you on this question so we've both forgotten...again. But my answer is not "as such" regardless of their spin.

There is the Christian Democratic Party which is a very minor party without much power or with deniable power. Sorry, does having Christian in the name, qualify? Both major parties claim to be following Christian principles but they can't usually vote according to their individual conscience. You know, the principles and the conscience that NO non-Christian could possibly possess to run Australia the 'right' way in in our interests vs their own.

We also have a different party, simply the Democrats...whose founding leader, Don Chipp, is fondly remembered for giving the Party its slogan: 'Keep The Bastards Honest' claiming it is the only party capable of doing so and their track record had been great. And they don't vote in blocs. This is the sort of party best suited for the Senate as it doesn't align with either party nor can it get enough to govern in its own right.

In the past, it has held the 'balance of power'. But you didn't ask me to compare honesty and Christianity, did you? Nor who compromises their beliefs to curry favour among all minor parties, some I'm sure will claim to have Christians among them.

My brother has joined the Christian Democratric Party and almost genuflected when the local candidate interrupted/ended my rare conversation with him. But in my area, the Labor Party has a stranglehold with our local sleepy do-nothing member, holding his post for over 20 years. And that may be the very thing to incite change.

Australia makes many bad decisions as does the USA etc. We're not silly here if we haven't started just blaming the Christian bloc for it. We do blame the hypocrites, the corrupt, the greedy, the incompetent et al. A Christian politician is like a seagull, one of the birds that crap a lot...but the totality of crap is still beyond them.

-- posted by redback

» redback - G'day, Pink

In response to Christian is as "Christian" does posted by redback:

Just after I posted, it occurred to me that the outcome of Federal elections here are more susceptible to "fatal infection" than those within the USA.

A 'nail in the coffin' storm is brewing. A very few people targeted just one (marginal) seat with a fake leaflet via letter drop. This leaflet supposedly came from a (non-existent) Muslim Association praising the Labor Party for allegedly supporting the building of a Mosque a few suburbs away and for allegedly protesting the execution of the Bali bombers who killed over 200 people including 88 Aussies.

A highly inflammatory issue that had to unravel. But it incites suspicions that will probably persist. They were caught redhanded because one from their own Party reported it and police and Electoral Commission involved. Very risky, dirty politics (for OZ) that could have been instigated by any party...not just the main ones...for those of a conspiracy bent.

Does the religious right stoop so low? I don't think so but the web will take a while to convincingly untangle. And no time to repair any damage or re-ignite momentum, before Saturday's election.

-- posted by redback

» pink101 - G'day, Pink

In response to G'day, Pink posted by redback:

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I wonder if what's going on down under there a precursor of what is going to be going on up above here where we're going to be going through the falderow of electioneering dragged out to be a 24 month ordeal--at least it seems like it.
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Political parties will be the death of our democracy. The old American Pie is getting cut into slices and served up to the politicians. The rest of us get what crumbs fall off their tables.
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-- posted by pink101

» redback - G'day, Pink

In response to G'day, Pink posted by pink101:

You know our Prime Minister is dependant on getting a majority vote from only one electorate...and despite the spin...tis not a Presidential process. I can't recall what the extremes have been but I know when 54% of Aussies voted for the Labor Party, it did not win office. One member of parliament can win by one vote or 5,000...it makes no difference.

In one local area some years ago, a MP was returned to office with a greater majority despite having criminal proceedings against him. So, my assumptions re any political fallout here, are tenuous. What IS interesting is that for the first time in decades, most newspapers are going to have negative headlines agin the government on election day, tomorrow. And the spin is the media doesn't influence.

There is "some" evidence Aussies lose interest well before the end of the formal 6-week period. Electioneering simply starts well before the official start date.

"Political parties will be the death of our democracy."
Actual membership of a political party and of a union here, is totally disproportionate to their power. I kinda like the idea of voting for Independents here as a part of the checks and balances. You don't have that?

PS: This post was interrupted by a several buzzing sounds and 'pinging' sounds. Thought my PC was dying! Only when I logged out, did a Labor ad appear. Here, political ads are immune from laws against junk and spam mails, soliciting phone calls. But twas the worst thing to do to Jeff!

-- posted by redback

» pink101 - G'day, Pink

In response to G'day, Pink posted by redback:

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But, I wrote, ""Political parties will be the death of our democracy."", and you questioned if we had a choice beyond the two.
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The voters are given the choice of several different parties that provide candidates.for office. Democratic, Independent, Libertarian, Republican, Socialist Labor, etc., depending on what state is involved. And, some offices are even listed as Non-Partisan.
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That--in itself--is a good idea. Here is what I meant by my statement: It is about how the parties choose their candidates. Our democracy has been confiscated by the two major parties each of which is bought and paid for by the same big money. Our office holders serve the moneyed interests and not the people that elect them. We've got a "primary" race going on right now and we're considering changes in our national health care system. Big moneyed pharmaceutical and health-care insurance companies are financing all candidates that support some variation of what will benefit them.
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-- posted by pink101

» redback - G'day, Pink

In response to G'day, Pink posted by pink101:

"But, I wrote..."

I understod what you were saying about the death of democracy. I simply asked another question.

When it comes to 'democracy' and a 'fair go' etc, I hold to the view we need to uphold those values despite the political party process and despite which specific Party holds office. (Kinda like me upholding MY right not to be anti-social etc despite what goes on around me)

Here, if we get a fair balance in the House of Review (Senate) or with minor Parties capable of stuffing things up, there is some extra checks and balances.

One of the curious reasons given here to vote for the incumbents is there would otherwise be 100% Labor across the country...both State & Federal...with no-one to provide opposition. This is a request to vote for a party not on their merits. When we have a Labor State but a Federal Liberal government, excesses have some chance of being reigned in.

I will in any event vote for a Party I am not a member of. If I vote for the dozy, incompetent local member to get a particular Party in power OR vote for a hard worker who will NEVER win, I don't see any great choice for one specific beige duck...me.

-- posted by redback

» redback - respite care

1: I went to vote and felt compelled to lodge a formal complaint with the Electoral Commission when a candidate worked the queue waiting to vote. It's illegal to canvas votes once the queue enters inside a gate of the school grounds ie defined polling station before the actual building and booths. But in 'peak hour' when the queue extends far beyond, only those within the grounds are protected from intimidation which may have occurred eg when a foreign language is used like today.

I do this despite being happy IF the power base of the encumbent is well and truly eroded...fairly.
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2: I am a non-Christian so really need to know what unrealistic expectations some here have for me so I can properly explain why I'm not going to exceed their expectations.
My style of questioning is possibly being seen as taking exception to Christianity or global knocking of the Bible yet blind acceptance of dogma being stuffed down one's throat is also seen as offensive. People here can't have it both ways and I'm not really excited about zero based defences of my approach. And I'm still not here for confrontation.

So, I will rest again from Mind & Soul for a wee while.

-- posted by redback

» Brian Tubbs - respite care

In response to respite care posted by redback:

Jeff, my apologies to the extent that you've perceived me as being hostile or uncooperative to your posts. I think you add a different dimension to these discussions, and your presence will be missed. Hope you will return soon. God bless.

» _Boanerges_ - unrealistic expectations

In response to respite care posted by redback:

I am a non-Christian so really need to know what unrealistic expectations some here have for me so I can properly explain why I'm not going to exceed their expectations.

I have no expectations from you, Jeff.. Always appreciate your thoughts, even though I find you to be a little confused on the whole overview of the Bible, what it is, what it is not.. etc..

Personally, I don't believe you put into the studying of the Bible as you do other things of interest to you.

So.. the end result, as far as my point of view is that you're not much different than any other person who rejects the Bible based on hearsay - and not actual study and truthful examination.... I believe you are easily influenced by those around you for lack of true interest or study...

but then.. thats what most people do anyway.. so, thats why I say that I have 0 (zero) expectations from you, or anyone else who really have no interest in something that they claim they have an interest in.. If that makes any sense to you.. If not, then, I suppose it would be much easier understood if we were sitting in a coffee shop or something comparing notes!..

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» redback - unrealistic expectations

In response to unrealistic expectations posted by _Boanerges_:

Believe it or not, I actually appreciate your honesty, Boanerges, but my attempts for an objective study of the Bible, to remove any perceived "confusions" I have is probably hampered by my own 'creative' questions. My bad. But also by my seeking sense here and needing to wade through the non-sense. Non-sense as distinct from pleasant exchanges on (trivial?) matters.

And if the major players here only dominate one "side", I'm not that superficial nor easily influenced by ANY side...including your own.
A part of your 'confusion' for want of a better term, is what beliefs you think I should already have or are denying. Very hard to question what is within a Christian belief when my 'credibility' is questioned however people protest that occurring.

I agree with you that (my) belief is irrelevant to what ARE Christian facts and truths but do we all really walk that talk when seeking objective truths.

-- posted by redback