Protestantism

» Migisi - This Thread

In response to This Thread posted by pink101:

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Ol Bob - the square pants. Tee hee.

-- posted by Migisi

» pink101 - America's Churches Today

In response to This Thread posted by Migisi:
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Ol' Bob the Lord's Old Timer wears square pants?
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Probably.
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Thing about the Self is that it is what Jesus deals with in his Gospel. But, for some reason or other, it is well concealed in the Evangelicalism with which we are faced in America's churches today. They teach NOTHING about the freedom of the self. Instead, they teach a bondage to the Bible and their different denominational interpretations of what it means. And, THEY claim to speak some fundamental truth. What you see of hypocrisy in the Catholic Church is rampant in Protestantism as well. Their religion has turned into a membership in the group endeavor. And, they talk about salvation as though it is being saved from Hell's everlasting fires even though they claim there is no such specific place anymore.
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But, the most serious assault on their programmed existence is that they cannot deal with certain subjects which they call slippery slopes. Their faith is okay as long as they don't have to deal with reality. "Stay in the Bible" is not a chance slogan for Christian Fundamentalist Evangelicalism.
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-- posted by pink101

» pink101 - Inalienable Rights of The Self

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So, what about it?
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http://americanhistory.suite101.com/disc...
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Afraid To Live Beyond Your Ideologies?

In response to Afraid To Live Beyond Your Ideologies? posted by pink101:

Here--at this site--we find participants locked into an ideology that keeps them in bondage so that they are unable to think for themselves.

The apostle Paul encouraged followers of Christ to think. I'll grant that there are some fundamentalist churches and/or some circles within Christianity which discourage thinking. But that's not what Paul advocated in his epistles.

Instead, they are forced to search the Bible to find out about their own identity. They are not free to be.

This is a very interesting choice of words on your part. God's Word was given to the human race for its benefit, not for its detriment. Paul makes it clear that we have FREEDOM. "All things are permissible for me," he writes, "but not all things are profitable."

I can eat Dairy Queen Blizzards all day long every day. I have the freedom to do that. As a Christian. As an American. As a human being unfettered by any external power. But doing so will not be advantageous or profitable for me. I will pay the consequences for it.

Are you afraid to live beyond your ideologies?

I'm not sure what you're driving at here, Pink. I'm not afraid of thinking outside the box or of exploring new truths. But I recognize my humanity and my limitation. And I gratefully accept the fact that the God I serve is NOT limited in the ways that I am. God is all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-loving. It seems to me rather odd that people would NOT want to follow Him.

Let me put it another way. If I wanted to go on an African safari, I'd want to follow a guide who's done it before - who knows what he's doing. I would not want to follow my 4-year old son who's never been to Africa. And I think it would be rather odd for you to then ask me: "What's the matter, Brian, are you afraid to live beyond the wisdom of an experienced tour guide?"

» pink101 - Afraid To Live Beyond Your Ideologies?

In response to Afraid To Live Beyond Your Ideologies? posted by BrianTubbs:

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You are comparing the idea of going beyond your ideologies to an African safari.
So what is the role you're pointing at with the four year old in your metaphor?
Do you need a guide to think outside the box?
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Afraid To Live Beyond Your Ideologies?

In response to Afraid To Live Beyond Your Ideologies? posted by pink101:

My metaphor or example followed one aspect of this discussion, namely that it is not wrong to heed the wisdom of those who know what they are talking about. In my case, I treat the teachings of Jesus in just such a way.

As to the larger point about ideology, it is technically not possible to live beyond one's ideology unless one were to completely jettison coherence and become completely incoherent and irrational. Your ideology is the sum total of all your beliefs, values, and perspectives. Certainly, one's ideology can change, but everyone will more or less live consistent with the ideology they have at a given time. There's nothing surprising about this or wrong about this.

» pink101 - Afraid To Live Beyond Your Ideologies?

In response to Afraid To Live Beyond Your Ideologies? posted by BrianTubbs:
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"...t it is not wrong to heed the wisdom of those who know what they are talking about....I treat the teachings of Jesus in just such a way."
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Right. Wisdom comes from experience. It would not be smart to follow the ideologies of an inexperienced guide. I put great stock and strong belief in Jesus and his teachings. You won't see me belittling his gospel. He, too, was opposed to religionism--he came against it and its adherents with great fervor.
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But, it is possible to get outside of one's beliefs. Maybe you'd like to have a serious discussion about that. If so, you can start by reading some of Emile Durkheim. http://www.emiledurkheim.com/ He is a favorite.
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-- posted by pink101

» pink101 - As A Christian Preacher

In response to Afraid To Live Beyond Your Ideologies? posted by Brian:
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In my last post, I wrote, "[Jesus] came against [religionism] and its adherents with great fervor."
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And, he was crucified as a result of his opposition to the religionists of his day.
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As a Christian preacher, I'm sure you not only believe that is why he was put to death; but, it must also be a main part of what you preach to the congregation that attends to your teachings. Right?
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - As A Christian Preacher

In response to As A Christian Preacher posted by pink101:

There's more to it than Jesus simply coming "against the religionists of his day." You've built an entire ideology around that assertion, without bothering to consider the full biblical context.

Did Jesus speak against corruption and the abuse of power? Absolutely. I preached on that theme a few months ago, when I talked about his throwing the money-changers out of the Temple. But was this the full or complete theme of his ministry? Hardly.

The main reason Caiaphus and the Jewish leaders railroaded Jesus through a sham trial and pressured Pilate to execute him was because they sincerely believed Jesus was committing blasphemy. The man had after all, on several occasions, claimed to be God, and took it upon himself to represent and speak for the "Kingdom of God."

This was certainly a threat to their power base (as I've pointed out from the pulpit), and it was also a threat to their religion. But, for you to focus on the Jewish leadership and miss the whole message of Jesus' teaching is...well...it tells me that you are filtering the NT through your own agenda.

Jesus claimed to be God, Pink. And he claimed to be the way to heaven (John 14:6). THAT was ultimately why he was crucified.

Now, do you agree with Jesus? Do you believe he was God or not?

That is the MOST IMPORTANT part of Jesus' life, ministry, and teachings. Not simply that he went against the religionists of his day.

» pink101 - Give It Some Serious Thought

In response to As A Christian Preacher posted by BrianTubbs:
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There's more to it than Jesus simply coming "against the religionists of his day." You've built an entire ideology around that assertion, without bothering to consider the full biblical context.
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I don't think you or anyone else can make a good case that Jesus came to promote the Bible as the Revealed Word of God. If you can, I'd like to see that.
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Did Jesus speak against corruption and the abuse of power? Absolutely. I preached on that theme a few months ago, when I talked about his throwing the money-changers out of the Temple. But was this the full or complete theme of his ministry? Hardly.
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The meaning of the word, hardly, is almost not. In other words, you are down playing the fact that Jesus came against Religionist to the idea that he almost didn't do it.
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Anyone who wants to understand how wrong YOU are in this case should take a week out and spend a couple hours an evening studying the Gospel of Matthew. Jesus spent major parts of his ministry in opposition to Religionism.
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The main reason Caiaphus and the Jewish leaders railroaded Jesus through a sham trial and pressured Pilate to execute him was because they sincerely believed Jesus was committing blasphemy.
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Not. That was a pretext they used to "get" Jesus. They were concerned that his popularity was destroying their stinking scam. To elevate them to the level that "they sincerely believed Jesus was committing blasphemy" is a popular foist used by modern day Religionists to take the focus off what Jesus truly taught.
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But, for you to focus on the Jewish leadership and miss the whole message of Jesus' teaching is...well...it tells me that you are filtering the NT through your own agenda.
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I never said a thing about the "Jewish leadership" except to identify that Jesus came against Religionism. Your spin that I am attacking Judaism detracts from my point. But, don't you really mean to say is that I am "filtering the NT" in a way to which you are opposed? You are sidestepping the entire idea that human beings can have a personal relationship with God.
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Jesus claimed to be God, Pink. And he claimed to be the way to heaven (John 14:6). THAT was ultimately why he was crucified.
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How naive. There is much more than that to the answers Jesus gives in chapter 14. It can be just as easily extrapolated that we can be in God and that God can be in us--as true for human beings as it was for Jesus. You know that teaching is out there--it is NOT my agenda. In fact, that is much more to the point. Believing in Jesus is not something that binds a person in chains; but, it is a liberation from religionism's bondage. What is in a person is greater than that which is outside their being.
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Now, do you agree with Jesus? Do you believe he was God or not?
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So! That is the perfect straw man that you talk about from time to time. Your purpose is to exclude me as a Christian. You have no authority in this area--nor does anyone else. You cannot separate me from my Inalienable Rights no matter how hard you try. And, that, my friend is a major point of the Inalienable Rights as well as what the apostle Paul teaches us in his writings.
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And, that is NOT "the MOST IMPORTANT part of Jesus' life, ministry, and teachings". In fact, the MOST IMPORTANT part IS the GOOD MEWS that human beings can be AT ONE with God outside the false teachings of Religionism and that the Realm/Kingdom of God is within arm's reach to all.
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Are you preaching THAT to your flock? Or are you telling them they have to believe Jesus is God in order to be accepted by God? Give it some serious thought before you answer.
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-- posted by pink101