Protestantism

» Brian Tubbs - Agreed, Wendell

In response to For those who blame God posted by _Boanerges_:

If God isn't real, then there's no Supreme Being to blame. If God IS real, then getting mad at Him, denying His existence because you're mad at Him, or whatever - none of that is going to do any good. Particularly not for the people affected by such a tragedy.

It happened. Period.

» redback - Requiem for my faith

In response to Requiem for my faith posted by Migisi:

"I remember like it was yesterday."

And so do I...it was night-time news here as it was happening and a sleepless night for me. And from Brian's post, I'm reminded that 'acts of god' is an insurance company escape clause to deny liability. What God passively or actively "allows" to happen seems harder to explain when its 'rainy weather'. But then, I've never expected or claimed to be mightier or more relevant than the hurricanes etc we face.

Twas 11 September yesterday and we had a bomb threat on an interstate coach with the driver wrestling the offender and avoiding an accident...reminding us that 911 did change things. I was thinking of you guys but had my own disasters to work through. My sister had a dramatic change in fortunes with a lot of effort and has got through her (current) crisis. My friend died 2 days ago, before we could either sort out all the things needed OR get her into a nursing home bed that took forever to find. I caught up on sleep...and life goes on.

-- posted by redback

» pink101 - What Upsets Me.

In response to What Upsets Me. posted by BrianTubbs:
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I heard about a woman police officer and her sister in Ohio. They had put together a tv program in which Israel's actions were to be discussed. The ADL or some other similar group pressured to get athem closed down.
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I only see the thinest mentions of Israeli policy in the middle east as a problem. Mostly, the talk is about the evil Palestinian terrorists. That is crap.
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-- posted by pink101

» Migisi - For those who blame God

In response to For those who blame God posted by _Boanerges_:
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kinda silly to blame a God you do not believe exists...
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You're right, Wendell. Long before 9-11, I'd suspected that an 'all-loving' God (so often preached about) did not exist. My suspicions were confirmed for me that day. And once I came to grips with that, I ~stopped~ blaming a nonexistent God.
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I wasn't the only one who blamed God that day:
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God Gave U.S. "What We Deserve," Falwell Says
http://dpsinfo.com/falwellrobertson91401...
(quote)
"God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve," said Falwell, appearing yesterday on the Christian Broadcasting Network's 700 Club, hosted by Robertson.
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"Jerry, that's my feeling," Robertson responded." (end quote)
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The towers fell, people died.. welcome to earth....
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True enough. It's high time that everyone realized that people are responsible for the bad - and the good - that happens. Not any god or devil.
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-- posted by Migisi

» Migisi - Requiem for my faith

In response to Requiem for my faith posted by redback:

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... I'm reminded that 'acts of god' is an insurance company escape clause to deny liability.
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And yet, according to the tele-preachers at the time, 9-11 was indeed an 'act of God' as punishment for (insert sin here). Of course, that would never hold up in court. The insurance companies tried to argue deductibles to reduce their pay out - asserting one liability claim (one incident), not two separate claims (two planes, two towers).
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relevant than the hurricanes etc we face.
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I'm sure you heard what the tele-preachers said about hurricane Katrina being God's punishment too.
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My friend died 2 days ago,...
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Terribly sorry to hear this, Jeff. My sympathies to you.
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and life goes on
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For now.

-- posted by Migisi

» _Boanerges_ - For those who blame God

In response to For those who blame God posted by Migisi:

You're right, Wendell. Long before 9-11, I'd suspected that an 'all-loving' God (so often preached about) did not exist.

If He does not exist, then there is no blame, and all consequences are wrought through the world of men. You can only blame humanity - for its ills....

My suspicions were confirmed for me that day. And once I came to grips with that, I ~stopped~ blaming a nonexistent God.

No you have not. you bitterness and ridicule become more irrational as the years progress....

I wasn't the only one who blamed God that day:

you aren't the only one who rejects God as well.. !

It's high time that everyone realized that people are responsible for the bad - and the good - that happens. Not any god or devil.

Appealing to a higher moral authority? You see Mig, as I said in the Morals thread, you cannot make a claim that morals do not
exist. In fact, you have pronounced that good and bad exist.

If you refer to the morals God has set forth, then you are appealing to a higher authority. If you choose your won morality, then you are appealing to a higher moral authority - yours....

When we compare man's moral authority, we are presented with 100's of millions of deaths...

When you compare to God's moral authority, you are outraged that God would declare to entirely eliminate an entire culture of evil, wicked devil worshipers that sacrificed their children to the hideous god named Molech.

And, you think 9-11 was something of importance? It wasn't - it is the world you and I live in. when I said 'welcome to earth' my underlying point is simple - those who choose this planet as their redemption, are left without all hope...

Int his life, enjoy.. for that is all you have....

You only can blame yourself for all 9-11's that have come, that will come, and that have already passed.

The world of men is like a funnel. In the beginning it was wide and open. As time progresses and is nearing its final stage, the wide opening gets narrower and narrower, and eventually, all that is left is a small funnel to which men must realize.

As God declared.. and as He sought that which was morally fit:

Genesis 6:5-8 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. Ad it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

De:12:8: Ye shall not do after all the things that we do here this day, every man whatsoever is right in his own eyes.
J'g:17:6: In those days there was no king in Israel, but every man did that which was right in his own eyes.
J'g:21:25: In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes.
Job:32:1: So these three men ceased to answer Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes.
Psalms:36:2: For he flattereth himself in his own eyes, until his iniquity be found to be hateful.
Proverb:12:15: The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.
Proverb:16:2: All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but the LORD weigheth the spirits.
Proverb:21:2: Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts.

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» Migisi - For those who blame God

In response to For those who blame God posted by _Boanerges_:
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If He does not exist, then there is no blame, and all consequences are wrought through the world of men. You can only blame humanity - for its ills....
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Right again. If an 'all-loving' god ~does~ exist, believers insist the one still can't blame that god. Either way, that only leaves men to blame.
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No you have not. you bitterness and ridicule become more irrational as the years progress....
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That's merely ~your~ opinion.
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In fact, you have pronounced that good and bad exist.
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I said otherwise?
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And, you think 9-11 was something of importance?
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It was to me, and millions of others.
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when I said 'welcome to earth' my underlying point is simple - those who choose this planet as their redemption, are left without all hope...
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Redemption? No hope of what?
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Int his life, enjoy.. for that is all you have...
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Okay. I will.
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You only can blame yourself for all 9-11's that have come, that will come, and that have already passed.
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Now why on earth should I blame myself?

-- posted by Migisi

» _Boanerges_ - For those who blame God

In response to For those who blame God posted by Migisi:

Now why on earth should I blame myself?

myself. as in. the human race...

evil exists... whats the point in trying to blame God for not making us perfect, at this point in time and space. God has said that this will come - in the future.... meaning, Christians have hope.. Whereas, those who choose earth as their heaven.. well, as 9-11 proved.. there is no heaven on earth.....

but.. on a brighter note.. the world has much good in it as well.. You cannot have good, without evil.. you cannot have heaven, without hell.....

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» redback - Requiem for my faith

In response to Requiem for my faith posted by Migisi:

"Terribly sorry to hear this, Jeff. My sympathies to you."

Thanks. When I stated I was exhausted before, twas not from pink-think but what surrounded me in real-time. I almost feel guilty for getting some sleep.

"Insurance companies have long used what is called the 'doctrine of proximate cause', meaning if there are several causes of damage, one of which is not covered by the policy, then there's no payout."

That allows floods to be excluded, stormwater damage to be included. God set a precedent for causing floods, didn't He? But by the time it causes damage, aint His fault?

This is not about the Bible being wrong. It's about insurance companies (mis)using the Bible for their own purposes...not an entirely unusual phenomenom.

-- posted by redback

» Migisi - Requiem for my faith

In response to Requiem for my faith posted by redback:
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That allows floods to be excluded, stormwater damage to be included. God set a precedent for causing floods, didn't He? But by the time it causes damage, aint His fault?
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I can't make sense of it. There must be some finer print in the 'acts of God' policy book, written with invisible ink, that I can't read. Tee hee. Wind, hail, ice, snow, tree falling on my house.. and flood.. can all be blamed on 'acts of God'. In ~my~ book, anyway.

-- posted by Migisi