Protestantism

» pink101 - Immoral Majority

In response to Moral Majority posted by Migisi:
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I'll say one thing about Kennedy other than the fact that I used to send his ministry money--probably over a thousand bucks.
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He was a dangerous influence on the Americans who fell under his cunning. And, that resulted in much of what troubles America today. His projects aggressively pursue an undermining of truth regarding American history.
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He is one of the ones in whom I had placed much trust and from whom I--finally--turned away when my eyes were eventually opened.
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-- posted by pink101

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» Brian Tubbs - Undermining of truth....no

In response to Immoral Majority posted by pink101:

Wrong, Pink. Kennedy did not undermine the truth. He simply exaggerated it. Kennedy was absolutely correct that the founding of the USA was dominated by Christians. But he exaggerated it by telling stories that were very Parson Weems-like. I fact-checked a lot of what he said, and it went too far. For example, GW was a Christian. Of that, I'm certain, but Kennedy told some stories about GW that just weren't verifiable. They were straight out of Parson Weems' tales, which most historians have debunked.

Now, was Kennedy being deliberately dishonest? I doubt it. IF he was, then he's giving an account to a much Higher Authority now than you or me. I think Kennedy genuinely bought the Parson Weems tales hook, line, and sinker. He was idealistic and naive to a fault. But not dishonest.

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» Brian Tubbs - Rephrase

When I disagreed with your choice of the word "undermined," I was thinking of it in more black-and-white terms. I will concede that BY exaggerating things, he did undercut their credibility - thus undermining truth in DEGREES. And that's truly a shame.

But he was not wrong on his bottom-line contentions. The United States WAS founded under God and its founding WAS dominated by Christians. And the early government of the US had no qualms about legislating a monotheistic, Judeo-Christian morality. On these points (which Kennedy argued for vociferously), he was correct.

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» pink101 - Undermining of truth....no

In response to Undermining of truth....no posted by BrianTubbs:
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He was idealistic and naive to a fault. But not dishonest.
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So you say, Brian, so you say. Personally, I don't think he was naive at all. He was a highly skilled communicator and knew exactly what he was doing. Few people ever come close to his class.
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Did he always precede his stories with warnings that they might not be verifiable or that they were controversial?
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I say he undermined the truth. To say I am wrong, is to go along with the exaggerations as he stretched the truth right up to the breaking point. But, he was a very effective promoter--he deserves a lot of credit. He was a Calvinist as you know. Are you familiar with his Westminster Academy? At one time, I was highly impressed with him and his work. I esteemed him at the top. And, his organist, Diane Bish, was spectacular. I think she drew many viewers in to his circle of influence. She was just a little thing; but, she could make their grand organ dance. After she retired from Coral Ridge, she did a tour playing organs all over the world on a nationally televised program. I saw her play an organ that Bach played when he was alive. Her musical artistry was superior--top class.
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America may have been predominately Christian; but, it was not founded as a Christian nation. It was founded as a secular nation and it was the Christian influence that demanded that with the Bill of Rights.
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-- posted by pink101

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» pink101 - How America Was Founded

In response to Rephrase posted by BrianTubbs:
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You have often noted how important it is to seek out original sources when we're trying to figure some things out. That is true of America's founding as well.
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To answer the questions about how America was founded, it is necessary to go back to the founding days. Where did those people get those ideas and what--truly--was it that drove them?
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The ideas of "inalienable rights" and the "natural state" of man are central to the founding of America. And, these ideas were opposed by the churches as you must know. Tradition claimed that God caused people to be born into this or that social condition whereas the Enlightenment taught that it was society that formed people into what it was they were and that it was society that was responsible for the human condition. I am prepared to discuss the issues if you like.
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-- posted by pink101

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» Brian Tubbs - Calvinism

In response to Undermining of truth....no posted by pink101:

I'm not a Calvinist, so I disagreed with him on that front. Of course, I'm not a full Arminiast either.

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» pink101 - Calvinism

In response to Calvinism posted by BrianTubbs:

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Bet you thought I didn't know what an Arminian is.
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Baptists like to be Arminians.
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-- posted by pink101

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» Brian Tubbs - Calvinism

In response to Calvinism posted by pink101:

I figured you did. I know you have a lot of knowledge and experience with church doctrine and Baptist history in particular.

The Baptists are actually divided on the issue of election and free will. Most Baptists lean toward the Arminian view of free will, minus the lose your salvation part. I don't know of very many Baptists who believe one can lose his or her salvation. I certainly don't. But there are quite a few Baptists who are pretty strict five-point Calvinists. Unfortunately.

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» Brian Tubbs - Methodists

The Methodists are very Arminian, by and large.

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» pink101 - Phenomenology

In response to Calvinism posted by BrianTubbs:
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The ideas of predestination/determinism and free-will gave birth to the ideas of phenomenology that came out of France a hundred years or so ago. The question that asks if the self even truly exists as an entity of being or if it is some kind of a phenomenon produced by society--phenomenonology.
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-- posted by pink101

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