Protestantism

» Migisi - Grading Christian Pastors

In response to Grading Christian Pastors posted by BrianTubbs:

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I'd like to see how you grade these preachers, Brian - from a pastor's POV. How 'bout it?

-- posted by Migisi

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» pink101 - Rating 0 to 10

I can rate these from 0 to 10 with 0 being the least respected:
000 Joel Osteen
0 Rick Warren
0000000 Charles Stanley
0000000 John MacArthur
2 Joyce Meyer
1 Billy Graham
? Ravi Zacharias.
1 R.C. Sproul. He is head of Ligonier.
00000000000000000000000000000000000 John Hagee. Cornerstone Church in Texas
0000000000000000 Kenneth Copeland
0000 Jim and Tammy Bakker
3 Jimmy Swaggart
0000000000000000000 Pat Robertson
000000000000000 James Dobson
00 Creflo Dollar
000000000000000 Rod Parsley
5 Robert Schuller
000000000000000000 James Kennedy
? Fred Price
? Bob Tilton
6 Brian Tubbs

-- posted by pink101

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» Brian Tubbs - Rick Warren

In response to Rating 0 to 10 posted by pink101:

While I can dispute a lot of your ratings (and I'm happy you gave me a 6 in light of the ratings you gave the others), but one I really wanted to address is Warren.

Why so low with Rick Warren? His book is inspirational. He's helped a lot of people. He's the real deal in that, in spite of all the scrutiny, he's maintained a good reputation. He's conservative, but he's very loving. (It's a shame I have to put a 'but' in there). The man has made HIV/AIDS reduction (particularly in Africa) a personal crusade! I don't see how you could rate him at a 0. That seems very judgmental and unfair on your part, Pink.

The same goes for several of the others, by the way. John MacArthur, for example. You may not personally like him, and you may not agree with him. But he's a VERY well-studied man. He doesn't just shoot off at the mouth. He is very serious in his studies and his approach to the Bible.

But the main one I wish to challenge you on is Rick Warren. I just don't see how any one could be so harsh on him.

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» Brian Tubbs - Grading Christian Pastors

In response to Grading Christian Pastors posted by Migisi:

As you've pointed out, I'd be coming from a different perspective. So, I'll have to tweak the grading criteria a bit.

I'll put some thought into it, but quick answers...

Joel Osteen is a good 'cream puff' preacher. Not a lot of substance, BUT he really does (I think) have a sincere desire to UNDO much of the negativity and judgmentalism that has characterized evangelical Christianity. So, he's gone to the other 'extreme' (some might say). But he's a very inspirational speaker. I listen to him fairly regularly, and have read his book. Will read the next one too.

I have great respect for Billy Graham. He's learned a lot over the years, and he's not afraid to admit his past mistakes. He's been very open about them, in fact. That is to his credit. A truly honorable, decent human being. He brings credit to the ministry.

I don't know a lot about Joyce Meyer. Several of the ladies in our church really like her, though. My mom also read some of her stuff. I actually was given a bunch of books by one of our church families, and some of her stuff is in there. So, I will probably read through it.

And I really like Rick Warren. You can read what I said about him in my comments to Pink.

More later.

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» pink101 - Grading Christian Pastors

In response to Grading Christian Pastors posted by BrianTubbs:

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Maybe I got Warren mispegged. Isn't he the one who has done so much to promote so-called "small groups" in churches?
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I might have to reconsider the rating I gave Tubbs.
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We'll have to keep our eyes open.
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-- posted by pink101

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» Brian Tubbs - Small Groups

In response to Grading Christian Pastors posted by pink101:

What's wrong with small groups? Their purpose is to help people in mid to large churches connect, make friends, etc. My current church doesn't have them, because - well - are church IS a small group. But the last couple of churches I've gone to (not as pastor - just as a member) have had them, and I've found them helpful. There was no heavy-duty Bible-thumpin' going on. It was a casual time of discussion, sharing prayer requests, etc. Lots of good friendships formed out of them. Babysitting swaps worked out too sometimes. They're great for young families.

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» Migisi - Grading Christian Pastors

In response to Grading Christian Pastors posted by BrianTubbs:
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Joel Osteen is a good 'cream puff' preacher.
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I could only take small doses of his weekly sugar. He was good for 'warm and fuzzy', but not much else, IMO. But he packed the auditorium, didn't he.
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I have great respect for Billy Graham.
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I rarely, if ever, listened to him.
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My mom also read some of her [Meyer] stuff.
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I bought many of her videos, cassettes, and booklets, and was on her monthly newsletter mailing list. I liked her.
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I don't know anything about Rick Warren. Never heard him.
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There's one I should add to my list: Mart De Haan of RBC Ministries. I read his "Our Daily Bread" inspirational pamphlets from cover to cover, and purchased a lot of his booklets on various books in the Bible.
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I gave all the Christian material I'd collected over the years to my nephew who's still planning on entering prison ministry after he graduates college this year. He was thrilled to share it with his Bible study group.

-- posted by Migisi

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» pink101 - Grading Christian Pastors

In response to Grading Christian Pastors posted by Migisi:

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Being a Michigander, I was raised on the DeHaan Grandfather's ministry out of Grand Rapids.
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-- posted by pink101

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» Brother_Jones - Grand Rapids

Since Grand Rapids is the base for Zondervan, it looks like my future and the church at Mars Hill is sorta intertwined. Wish me and my kin luck. God is kinda green, I guess. lol.

http://www.marshill.org

i am just an oldtimer for the Lord.

-- posted by Brother_Jones

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» pink101 - Grand Rapids

In response to Grand Rapids posted by Brother_Jones:
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Grand Rapids, as you might know, is the heart of the conservative movement in Michigan.
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Zondervan, Bakker Books, Schuler Books, Grand Rapids School of The Bible, and the Back To The Bible radio series of Dr. Martin DeHaan and his grand children, Acquinas, Calvin, and Hope colleges, Dr. Robert Schuler in California, all of them, are at the very heart of Michigan's movement into Calvinistic Doctrines. Grand Rapids emanates north to Muskegon (Jim Bakker's home town) and south to Kalamazoo where I live. G-R, as we call it here on Michigan's West Coast, is the future capital city of Michigan taking over where Michigan's "Big D" held forth,ie., Detroit. Look at the map. Our Capitol City is Lansing which is half way between Detroit and G-R on I-96. One thing you have to remember is that, "If You Ain't Dutch, You Ain't Much". And another is that, "You Can Tell A Dutchman; But, You Can't Tell 'Em Much".
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So, you kid is associated with Zondervan?
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BTW, I went to school with a brother and sister who share your last name. I forget the girl's first name; but, the boy's name was Chuck. I do think their last name started with a different letter than yours; but, it had the same sound. They were a strong union family. I lost track of them around the end of WW II.
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-- posted by pink101

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