Protestantism

» Brian Tubbs - God on our Side

There are those who criticize our military chaplaincy (or at least evangelical elements WITHIN the chaplaincy) for preaching a "God and Country" type message.

Mr. Weinstein is an author championing this criticism. He and his followers are off base in one important respect.

Military chaplains have ALWAYS been asked to encourage (either directly or indirectly) the notion that God is at least somewhat blessing or sanctioning the efforts of the men and women of the U.S. armed forces.

Anyone interested should go back to the American Revolution, when George Washington very clearly used military chaplains to keep the Continental Army troops motivated for the "glorious cause" (even when they weren't getting paid - ESPECIALLY when they were weren't getting paid). Is that wrong?

George Washington didn't think so. I'll take Washington's wisdom and example over Weinstein's ANY DAY of the week (and, as they say, twice on Sunday - pun intended).

» pink101 - God on our Side

In response to God on our Side posted by BrianTubbs:
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You have just put a spin on this idea of "God In The Military" that is not the case.
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Certainly chaplains have a specific role to play in the military just as they have in private life. I don't think that Weinstein is complaining about that.
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The problem is raised when the chain of command is manned and headed by officers that show a distinct preference regarding their particular ideological beliefs.
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Maybe I haven't worded that line as it should be; but, we can work on it.
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When I was in the Marine Corps, it was common knowledge that when an officer of superior rank said, "S***!, the proper response was not to question; but, to do as instructed. And, that, my friends, was given as an example during initial training.
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So, if the captain should say that he expected to see his best people at Novenas on Wednesday evening, all those who had any brains were there.
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I found Weinstein's stats and comments interesting when he mentioned the percentages of recruits from Red States in comparison from those from Blue States.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - An aside

In response to God on our Side posted by pink101:

I have an uncle (a great uncle technically - and in reality too) who is Jewish. He is the former mayor of a small to mid size city in Northwestern Virginia. Being a lifelong Jew, he has faced some interesting challenges in that he had to "politick" (as a business owner and local politician) in a majority-Christian or at least majority-Chritianish community.

He learned to attend Christian and/or Christianish events, celebrations, parties, etc. without compromising his personal beliefs. I never saw my uncle crusading against Christmas trees. He would've had no problem lighting one on the town square while he was mayor. In fact, I'm sure he did. He was comfortable in who he was, and understood that paying social respect to the traditions and tenor of his majority Christian or majority Christian-ish community was NOT a personal compromise on his part. He was not dishonoring his own faith.

I wish that non-Christians in our society today, and in our military, had the SAME perspective that my uncle did.

» Brian Tubbs - More on the Issue

This is from another of Migisi's posts...

Go here, and click on "MRFF Readies Lawsuit Against Department Of Defense"
Military Religious Freedom Foundation
http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/...

I've been following this issue for a while now, ever since it was broadcast on CNN.
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You can watch the promo film for "Christian Embassy" at the Pentagon - the focus of the problem of the military (notice the uniforms) promoting a specific religion. The chaplain applied to the DOD to film a 'day in the life' of a military chaplain. That's what the DOD approved. It's not what it turned out to be.
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DoD Inspector General Finds Misconduct by Pentagon Generals Participating in "Christian Embassy" Promo Video:
Military Religious Freedom Foundation's Exposé Vindicated
http://militaryreligiousfreedom.org/pres...

» Brian Tubbs - Lincoln & Washington

Here's what Lincoln & Washington had to say about chaplains in the military...

http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArt...

» Brian Tubbs - From the Library of Congress

Interesting online information from the Library of Congress concerning religion during the founding era. Click on the link, then scroll down to the info on religion and morality in the Army and Navy. (They didn't have an Air Force then. )

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel...

» pink101 - More on the Issue

In response to More on the Issue posted by BrianTubbs:

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That's what the DOD approved. It's not what it turned out to be.
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That seems to be the key line in your quote and what you seem to be ignoring.
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-- posted by pink101

» Migisi - More on the Issue

In response to More on the Issue posted by pink101:
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The fact that the chaplain applied for permission to film under false pretenses. Brian needs to read the articles himself to get the full gist of the complaints.
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DoD Inspector General Finds Misconduct by Pentagon Generals Participating in "Christian Embassy" Promo Video:
Military Religious Freedom Foundation's Exposé Vindicated
http://militaryreligiousfreedom.org/pres...

-- posted by Migisi

» pink101 - More on the Issue

In response to More on the Issue posted by Migisi:

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I'm prone to give the padre the benefit of the doubt. The problem seems to have more to do with the high ranking officers who carry their religion in front of those in their commands.
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Maybe you have to be in the military to recognize the impact an officer's wishes have on their command.
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Have you heard of the number of lawyers Bush has put in government roles who have graduated from Regency Law School? Did you know that school is under the auspices of the Reverend Robertson who is a Dominionist?
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Weinstein gets into some pretty good detail on this little item.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Chaplains

In response to More on the Issue posted by pink101:

I'm prone to give the padre the benefit of the doubt.

A refreshingly reasonable comment. Migisi doesn't seem capable of giving Christian advocates and ministers the benefit of ANY doubt. I'm a little frustrated. Sorry.

Anyway....IF the military is going to allow chaplains from various denominations and faiths into the military, then those chaplains are GOING to try to advocate and spread their faith perspective in the ranks. THAT IS INEVITABLE!!

You have three approaches to this challenge:

Option 1: End the military chaplaincy, which admittedly some radical leftists want to do.

Option 2: Reduce the chaplaincy to what could be termed "ceremonial deism" - basically hire ONLY those chaplains willing to leave their faith perspective at the door and function within the military as glorified morale officers who give occasional religious platitudes at chapel services and other functions

Option 3: Allow the diversity, and simply ask chaplains to be "sensitive" to the diversity within the military

Option Three is the status quo, and what I support. But you have to understand that Option 3 will NEVER achieve 100% satisfaction. There will always be problems. We're human after all.