Protestantism

» _Boanerges_ - Proceed with caution.

In response to Proceed with caution. posted by Migisi:

Another example: Murder as a 'moral good' - according to our society: the death penalty, and war (and the resulting genocide of noncombatants).

Murder is defined as: "To kill intentionally and with premeditation".

Therefore, Capital Punishment nor War can be considered as murder.

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» Migisi - Doing one's Deuty

In response to Rape posted by _Boanerges_:
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Kill the rape VICTIM too - if she lives in town:
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23 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, 24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death-the girl because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man's wife. You must purge the evil from among you.
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A rapist puts a knife to her throat and warns her not to scream or he'll kill her. So she stays quiet. She lives through the rape, but gets stoned to death anyway because she didn't scream. Yeah, that's God's version of moral justice, right Wendell?
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And here's more 'moral justice':
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28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
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Here a rapist is merely 'fined' for raping a woman who isn't promised to another man - nobody's promised possession yet. SHE is punished forever by being forced to marry her rapist! The fine is actually a 'purchase price' for the rape victim. That's one way to get the woman who's rejected you, ay? Just rape her and pay her daddy off. Nice. Now, if they weren't 'discovered', she could just keep quiet about the rape and avoid the marriage - allowing the rapist to go unpunished and free to continue ravaging unbetrothed girls.

-- posted by Migisi

» Migisi - Proceed with caution.

In response to Proceed with caution. posted by _Boanerges_:
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Murder is defined as: "To kill intentionally and with premeditation".
Therefore, Capital Punishment nor War can be considered as murder.
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Did you even read what you wrote here? Sentencing someone to death, and going through with it, IS intentional and premeditated. The date, time, and place for execution is set way ahead of time by a judge.
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War is no accident either. Acts of war are certainly intentional and premeditated - planned in advance of the act by government leaders and military generals.

-- posted by Migisi

» _Boanerges_ - Doing one's Deuty

In response to Doing one's Deuty posted by Migisi:

Actually Mig, you need to re-read what is being given. I believe you have fished a few weblinks to help your 'research'. but, in fact, what you have provided has been argued for hundreds of years, and is due only in the fact that you have not taken the time to examine closely what the text is stating.

The following link will help you understand what is being said:

The Old Testament and Rape by Sam Shamoun
http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/o...

"It is clear from the context that Exodus is referring to a man persuading or enticing a woman into having sex. Hence, this passage lends support to the fact that the woman in Deuteronomy 22:28-29 consented to the sexual act, and wasn't forced into having sex. In other words, there was no rape involved between the man and the woman:".

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» _Boanerges_ - Proceed with caution.

In response to Proceed with caution. posted by Migisi:

Hi Mig.. I will respond with your misguided examples in a future post (collecting all responses together).

The question asked - which you have yet to acknowledge is -
Are you saying that you agree, that Rape and Murder are morally acceptable?

This question is not concerned with what people do - but is concerned with only - what is absolutely true.

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» Migisi - Rape

In response to Rape posted by _Boanerges_:

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as acceptable and given by God, then you are incorrect, Mig..
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Mosaic Law, as given to the Jews by God. Allegedly.

-- posted by Migisi

» Migisi - Proceed with caution.

In response to Proceed with caution. posted by _Boanerges_:
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Are you saying that you agree, that Rape and Murder are morally acceptable?
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What I'm saying is that morality IS RELATIVE to the culture, time period, and/or the individual. In the cases I presented, this was Biblical morality back then. It is NOT acceptable according to our society's moral standards today. Therefore, your examples of moral absolute truths don't hold up.

-- posted by Migisi

» _Boanerges_ - Sentencing someone to death

In response to Proceed with caution. posted by Migisi:

Sentencing someone to death, and going through with it, IS intentional and premeditated.

Don't you have this turned around? Capital punishment is the results of the law - which state that Murder is a violation of the law.

You have yet to determine how it is morally acceptable to murder. All you have provided is examples of people - who have committed murdered.

Yet contrary to your statements, you have provided no example of murder as a acceptable by any law, from any people, societies, etc, of all time frames.

Maybe you will take a few minutes and reflect on the question and return with some evidence where the act of murder is condoned by the law or by its society, etc...?

(questions refer to all time frames, all peoples, all societies, all humans.)

War is no accident either. Acts of war are certainly intentional and premeditated - planned in advance of the act by government leaders and military generals.

True. But in this case, you are referencing 'appealing to a higher moral standard'. That is - if one side of the warring party believes it is reasonable to murder for gain, through war, then the other side is saying that it is reasonable to protect oneself against this.

This is but one example of a self-refuting absolute fact - Individual rights. As of yet, this has not been addressed, and is one of the four examples mentioned.

your turn...

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» Migisi - Sentencing someone to death

In response to Sentencing someone to death posted by _Boanerges_:
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Dan gave one example of how your moral absolute truths don't hold up, and I offered a couple more. I'm really not interested in discussing legalities and supposed ethics surrounding capital punishment and war.
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Go ahead and take a few more turns, Wendell. My grandkids are here, and it's time to play with them now - not you. (wink)

-- posted by Migisi

» _Boanerges_ - don't hold up

In response to Proceed with caution. posted by Migisi:

What I'm saying is that morality IS RELATIVE to the culture, time period, and/or the individual.

You have yet to shown this as true.. even though you believe you have.

In the cases I presented, this was Biblical morality back then.

You example is clearly not a fact. As shown.

It is NOT acceptable according to our society's moral standards today. Therefore, your examples of morality absolutes don't hold up.

Actually, again not true. Rape and Murder are held into account by the law, as was in the OT days.

Accordingly, your examples are not factual and contradict the reality of Rape and Murder as being morally unacceptable.

You must provide an example as to where Rape and Murder are morally acceptable. you have yet to provide this, as well as have yet to stand for your position stating that these morals are relative...

Do you agree that Murder and Rape are morally acceptable?

-- posted by _Boanerges_