Protestantism

» pink101 - Proceed with caution.

In response to Proceed with caution. posted by _Boanerges_:
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I ain't showing you squat.
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But, go ahead and post some more.
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Don't forget, I'm learning how to cast spells and I will soon be able to turn you into a toad just like they thought that Pete got done to him in that George Clooney movie, Brother, Wherefore Art Thou?
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-- posted by pink101

» Migisi - Hocus pocus holy smokus

In response to not concerned with - what *you* think posted by pink101:

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I could cast a spell on you and then, you'll be sorry.
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Double, double toil and trouble;
Fire burn and cauldron bubble.
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Fillet of a fenny snake,
In the cauldron boil and bake;
Eye of newt, and toe of frog,
Wool of bat, and tongue of dog,
Adder's fork, and blind-worm's sting,
Lizard's leg, and howlet's wing,
For a charm of powerful trouble,
Like a hell-broth boil and bubble.
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Three Witches in Shakespeare's Macbeth, 1605
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-- posted by Migisi

» pink101 - Hocus pocus holy smokus

In response to Hocus pocus holy smokus posted by Migisi:
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Yeah, and, and he'll be sorry and plead for mercy.
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Thanks for reminding me of those magic words.
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But, what if it doesn't work and it turns him into a monkey's uncle or something worse? How could I reverse that?
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Speaking of reversing curses, off to the Health Club.
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-- posted by pink101

» _Boanerges_ - Black & White Moral Absolutes

...............continuing.....

[ 4 ] established moral absolutes:
a)rape b)theft c)murder d)individual rights.

Rational discourse proves that more exist. Shall we attempt to name those?

related:
===============================================
April 26, 2005
UNIVERSAL GOOD AND BAD ACTIONS: BLACK AND WHITE MORAL ABSOLUTES
Neo-Tech Advantage #5
http://www.uncsense.com/root/2005/04/uni...

Rational or good actions increase prosperity, happiness, and psychuous pleasures. Irrational or bad actions undermine those values. While each individual's life and values are unique, certain basic actions never change in terms of good or bad actions. The rightness or wrongness of those basic actions do not vary according to opinion, or from person to person, or from generation to generation, or from culture to culture, or from solar system to solar system. Universally good or bad actions are objectively based on the biological nature of human beings and are definable in absolute terms. But other actions are amoral and cannot be judged in terms of good or bad because they are a matter of personal preference determined by individual differences.

Universal morals are objective. They are not based on opinions of the author or anyone else. Universal morals are not created or determined by anyone. No one can deem what is moral and what is not moral. The same moral standards exist for each and every human being throughout all locations, cultures, and ages. Those standards are independent of anyone's opinions or proclamations. Moreover, two and only two black-and-white moral standards exist. Those two moral standards are:

Any chosen action that purposely benefits the human organism or society is morally good and right.

Any chosen action that purposely harms the human organism or society is morally bad and wrong.

Feelings and emotions, on the other hand, cannot be considered as standards, absolutes, or morals. A person's life-style, desires, needs, and preferences can vary greatly without altering that person's character or without making that person morally right or wrong. Still, moral absolutes do exist. And following or violating moral absolutes determines a person's character and self-esteem. The two moral absolutes essential for prosperity and happiness are:

1. Integrated honesty for knowing reality
2. Integrated efforts for increasing productivity

Habitually violating either of those two moral absolutes precludes genuine prosperity and happiness. Related to those absolutes are the following moral issues:

Honesty
Self-esteem
Individual rights
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Sacrifice
Use of force
Ends justifying the means

The list below shows how each moral issue separates into either a moral, pro-life, pro-individual category or an immoral, anti-life, anti-individual category.

Objective morals are based on reality, reason, logic. Subjective "morals", on the other hand, are based on unreal, arbitrary feelings or wishes. All such unreal "morals" require force, deception, or coercion to impose them on others. Subjectivism, mysticism, existentialism, and "do your own thing" are all attempts to deny objective morals by implying that no standards exist and everything is of equal value (thus denying objective morals and values).

UNIVERSAL MORAL ISSUES

Moral Issue: Honesty.

Prosperity and Happiness Approach

Conscious striving for self-honesty. Unyielding loyalty to honesty. Productive effort. (Moral)

Failure and Unhappiness Approach

Pragmatic compromise and evasion of honesty. Habitual dishonesty. Parasitical laziness. (Immoral)

Moral Issue: Productivity.

Prosperity and Happiness Approach

Productive actions that increase values to others and society while increasing effectiveness in dealing with reality. (Moral)

Failure and Unhappiness Approach

Destructive actions that decrease values to others and society while decreasing effectiveness in dealing with reality. (Immoral)

Moral Issue: Individual Rights.

Prosperity and Happiness Approach

Recognition of the inalienable right everyone has to his or her own life and property. (Moral)

Failure and Unhappiness Approach

Denial of individual or property rights in order to plunder the life and property of others. (Immoral)

Moral Issue: Sacrifice*.

Prosperity and Happiness Approach

Refusal to sacrifice is by nature life enhancing and thus is morally right. (Moral)

Failure and Unhappiness Approach

Sacrifice is "noble", especially when done for a "higher" cause or, better yet, no cause. (Immoral)

Moral Issue: Use of Force.

Prosperity and Happiness Approach

Rejecting the initiation of force, threat of force, coercion, or fraud against any individual for any reason is the foundation of morality. (Moral)

Failure and Unhappiness Approach

Use of force (especially government force) is acceptable against individuals, especially if the result serves the social "good" or a "higher" cause. (Immoral)

Moral Issue: Ends Justifying the Means.

Prosperity and Happiness Approach

In regards to force, the ends never justify the means. All moral actions are based on principles that prohibit initiatory force, threat of force, coercion, and fraud as a means to accomplish ends, no matter how "noble". (Moral)

Failure and Unhappiness Approach

Ends can justify the means. Force and coercion can be pragmatically used for the "good" of society. Individual rights can be violated or sacrificed for "noble" ends. (Immoral)

* Sacrifice occurs when a value is diminished or destroyed for a lesser value or a nonvalue.

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» pink101 - Black & White Moral Absolutes

In response to Black & White Moral Absolutes posted by _Boanerges_:

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Not bad. Only 800 or so words--for the most part--of cut and paste.
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When you get in this mode, it makes me think you are some crusader coming in on a horse swinging your mace so you can bludgeon everyone into thinking your way. What did you pick that habit up?
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-- posted by pink101

» dancooper - Proceed with caution.

In response to Proceed with caution. posted by _Boanerges_:

"Are you ready to answer the 4 moral absolutes that are discovered as - self-evident, fundamental truths - to all cultures, all societies, all time frames - and every human that has ever lived. ..?"

Hey, Wendell, your absolutes don't work. You ask for examples in which they are not functional. Okay, here goes.

Do you remember the novel, The Catcher in the Rye? You know, where a brand new society springs up and encompasses murder and violence as part of the anticipated norm.

But if you prefer real life examples, there is always Jim Jones and his warped society, in which the rules as established included genocide, suicide and whatnot. Here, the cultural norm was well established, and dictated to an extreme. Murder was not a vice, but a means to a desired end. One has to view the culture from outside to criticize it for its failure to adhere to ANOTHER cultural norm, which condemns murder instead of encouraging it. Relativity. Not adherence to an absolute.

And before you criticize this by noting that undoubtedly, there were individuals within that micro-society who disagreed, and thought (as we might) that the killing of all those people was morally wrong, it must be recognized that they were the cultural misfits, by definition. They were thinking and believing outside the cultural mandates that were predominant. The cultural norm accepted genocide. Relativity, not absolutes.

And at several points you seemed to want to talk about relativity? Okay. Here is a quote from one of your former posts, only slightly modified to demonstrate the relativity in its statements. My modifications are in brackets.

"In some countries, whole populations are [mentally] starving to death because of false religions. They are literally starving to death with food all around them, because their religion will not allow them to [see] certain things."

I wonder which countries I could have in mind here...

Dan

-- posted by dancooper

» pink101 - Proceed with caution.

In response to Proceed with caution. posted by dancooper:

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Ho ho ho
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Good one.
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-- posted by pink101

» _Boanerges_ - DC responds!

In response to Proceed with caution. posted by dancooper:

Hey Dan.. nice to see you back...

okie.. lets assume you are correct, that 'murder' is morally acceptable....

There remains 3 more absolutes that need to be shown why they are not, as you attempted to do with murder.. Of course I do not agree with you explanation, but.. will save that for other responses...

First, we are left remaining with 3 moral absolutes, still confirming that moral absolutes exist.

Your turn

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» pink101 - Rape

In response to DC responds! posted by _Boanerges_:

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Rape gets blown away in the same way.
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Rape is a moral good in war where the enemy men are put to the sword and the enemy women are raped to impregnate them in a strategy to further the good blood of the victors.
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-- posted by pink101

» _Boanerges_ - Rape

In response to Rape posted by pink101:

okie.. lets assume you are correct, we have 2 more remaing...

your turn ..

-- posted by _Boanerges_