Protestantism

» redback - How to Believe in Absolute Truth While Keeping an Open Mind

In response to How to Believe in Absolute Truth While Keeping an Open Mind posted by pink101:

Absolute rules exist. Rules are absolutely broken. There was to be without exception, no talking after lights out when I was in a boys' home or offenders would be caned on a cold frosty winter night. We were caned because we talked. I reckon all society's rules are broken with the possible exception of....?

The concept of 'absolute truth' as discussed these pages seems to overtake the term is simply an alternative label or heading for what underpins the claim. I don't drink a glass of 'absolute truth'. I drink a glass of water. Now, if someone said, it was pure water, I would suspect it aint the absolute truth. But, given what I know about purity...and water...I'd still settle for the suspicion it aint even partly truth. I suspect my body absolutely needs the water.

I reckon the term is not only a religious one but a political one as well. Are there grades of truth as implied by the term 'absolute truth' eg tis only the absolute truth Dubya got elected, not that he got there honestly (Gore!?) or would ever do right by all citizens? OR is the term only meant to convey an umbrella, uber-important truth? In each case, it could make 'absolute truth' a specially defined 'truth' limited by its definition?

How do we tinker with the concept of 'absolute truth' so that maybe I wasn't even drinking water? Ergo, all of the Bible must be wrong? Tackling 'absolute truth' has its challenges. ABC

-- posted by redback

» _Boanerges_ - It's Freaking Crazy

In response to It's Freaking Crazy posted by pink101:
"A fallacy is a component of an argument that is demonstrably flawed in its logic or form, thus rendering the argument invalid in whole. In logical arguments, fallacies are either formal or informal. Because the validity of a deductive argument depends on its form, a formal fallacy is a deductive argument that has an invalid form, whereas an informal fallacy is any other invalid mode of reasoning whose flaw is not in the form of the argument."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy
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Phil: That statement is an obvious fallacy (refering to #1)
Answer: Not true. Hinduism considers life to be non-reality. Therefore, the premise for #1 is correct and cannot be a fallacy. The problem you are having is that, you have essentially deconstructed the position of #1 as not being true, and therefore, have accept #2 as being true, even though you claim it too is a fallacy (which it cannot be, because the premise is true and is logically consistent to #1 - which is to say - the logical opposite).
Which - is the truth that the article points out...... .. That Absolutes exists....

quoting the article:

"Problem #1 -- Self-Contradiction. Those who would insist that there are NO absolutes are believing in an absolute. They are absolutely sure that there is nothing that is absolute. Such a philosophy is self-defeating and self-contradictory. Their statement of belief is, in itself, evidence against their belief!"

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» pink101 - It's Freaking Crazy

In response to It's Freaking Crazy posted by _Boanerges_:
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Your problem, Wendell, is so obvious even I can see though it.
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Here it is: You have this thing where you take an example and run it all the way to a proven fact of absolute and undeniable truth without using simple logic.The middle part of your argument is missing.
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So, your entire post would be seen as a complete fallacy according to your own reasoning.
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But, in any event, you are wrong. Period. You might as well hang it up as it only gets to be more ridiculous on your part.
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Certainly absolutes exist. Did you think we were all morons?
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That is not the point.
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The point is that when we discover an Absolute Truth, then all options are closed.
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You don't know any more about the after life than my cat who up and ran away recently. And neither do I. Nor does anyone else.
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-- posted by pink101

» _Boanerges_ - It's Freaking Crazy

In response to It's Freaking Crazy posted by pink101:
You don't know any more about the after life than my cat who up and ran away recently. And neither do I. Nor does anyone else.

true.. that is done by faith. However, that is not the premise of the article. the premise is simply to point out that absolutes exist, and since they do (by your admittance as well).. now the question comes down to - what is the absolute truth...

So far you have offered only emotional rhetoric, which is not a premise but a fallacy in itself. So then.. from this point forward, we can move forward from the fact that absolutes exist, and since they do in fact exist, then this is a reasonable premise, for none of the premise is false, therefore, not a fallacy.....

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» _Boanerges_ - point in fact

Phil: you don't know any more about the after life than my cat who up and ran away recently. And neither do I. Nor does anyone else.

I would re-word it this way:

Phil does not know any more about my grandmother, any more than my neighbor, who moved away recently.

premise: Wendell's grandmother exists (even if only in memory - she existed at one point)

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» Brian Tubbs - Are there MORAL absolutes?

Everyone here acknowledges there are scientific or physical absolutes. To re-focus this discussion...

Are there moral absolutes? Are there religious absolutes? And can we know them?

» pink101 - Wendell Is Wrong Again

In response to point in fact posted by _Boanerges_:
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Wendell, you are wrong again.
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There's nothing else to say.
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Absolutely--Absolutes Exist.
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-- posted by pink101

» _Boanerges_ - Absolutely--Absolutes Exist.

In response to Wendell Is Wrong Again posted by pink101:
Absolutely--Absolutes Exist.

Of course they exist.. therefore I cannot be wrong. Now then, you admit this is true, and Brian, and myself... and maybe Jeff?

So then.. lets look at the possibilities.... Everything is only black and white - there is no gray in reality...

Premise:
1: God exists
2: God does not exist

Question: Are there any other possibilities with the above premise?

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» pink101 - Absolutely--Absolutes Exist.

In response to Absolutely--Absolutes Exist. posted by _Boanerges_:
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You just don't get it, Wendell.
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You comments are futile.
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-- posted by pink101

» pink101 - Are there MORAL absolutes?

In response to Are there MORAL absolutes? posted by BrianTubbs:

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Whoops, your post was buried in the rubble. Sorry about that.
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I think we can all agree that morality is cultural.
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Due to the nature of our diverse culture and its complexity, morality exists like colors in the spectrum. Sometimes it is difficult to identify where the blues end and some other colors begin.
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Some aspects of morality are so universal that we have no trouble creating legislation as a control for behavior. We might call them Moral Absolutes. Others totter and it is difficult to get a handle attached to them.
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It would be futile to attempt the creation of a complete list of moral absolutes
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Morality is what human beings say it is--by the way.
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-- posted by pink101