Protestantism

» _Boanerges_ - Truth is necessary

"Truth is necessary in order for real love to exist...in fact, love is defined by truth. Without truth, no word, including the word 'love,' has a definition."
http://www.absolutetruth.net/truth/page1...
© 1998--2003
AbsoluteTruth.Net
Daniel W. Jarvis

-- posted by _Boanerges_

Permalink Print Discussion Email Discussion How to subscribe to feeds

» Brian Tubbs - Reply to Wendell

In response to Speaking in Absolutes posted by _Boanerges_:

I don't think Pink is being intentionally hypocritical, nor do I think he would consider himself egotistical or prideful. That said, I agree, Wendell, with your overall point. It IS inconsistent to make absolutist assertions and then criticize others for doing the same.

I've seen a number of absolutist judgments made by many people who claim to be open-minded, progressive, what have you. I think the inconsistency, the irony genuinely and unfortunately escapes them.

Permalink Print Discussion Email Discussion How to subscribe to feeds

» pink101 - Brother Jones Excommunicates Me Again

In response to Brother Jones Excommunicates Me Again posted by Brother_Jones:

.
In a way of looking at it, you're barking at the moon.
.
No offense.
.

-- posted by pink101

Permalink Print Discussion Email Discussion How to subscribe to feeds

» pink101 - Reply to Wendell

In response to Reply to Wendell posted by BrianTubbs:
.
You probably would benefit by putting your statement together algebraically.
.
Absolute in one situation is like oranges; but, it another area it's like grapefruit--similar but different.
.
To call a concept an absolute only makes a statement of fact that may, if affect, be up for opinion.
.
We're, none of us, at least as far as I'm concerned, trying to win some little contest of right or wrong, or somehow to better someone else. I think each of us thinks these things are important. It's always good to give the other the benefit of the doubt rather than trying to prove how stupid they are.
.
Know what I mean?
.

-- posted by pink101

Permalink Print Discussion Email Discussion How to subscribe to feeds

» _Boanerges_ - Reply to Wendell

In response to Reply to Wendell posted by BrianTubbs:

That said, I agree, Wendell, with your overall point. It IS inconsistent to make absolutist assertions and then criticize others for doing the same.

indeed... I can understand if the person making such claims say to themselves, and others... oooops.. sorry.. I am making a contradiction.....

but alas.. they do not.. which, in my eyes, makes it intentional..... The 'learned' should know better... So, since they prove they do, it really comes down to their pride and ego...... what more can be said.. its an empirical factual reality.... I didn't say it - they did.. and, since they (meaning those who contradict themselves) won't admit their error, I am more than happy to prove my point....

none are fooled....

-- posted by _Boanerges_

Permalink Print Discussion Email Discussion How to subscribe to feeds

» pink101 - Speaking in Absolutes--Brian

In response to Speaking in Absolutes posted by BrianTubbs:
.
Brian wrote, The irony here is that YOU, Pink, are making some absolutist type claims here. Example: Quotes Pink: "It shuts off all further knowledge of God. It forces all others into a dead end cul de sac where there is no exit. Excommunication--plain and simple." Sounds like an absolutist statement to me.
.
Yes, my statement is an absolute in that sense and it can be shown to be true. It does shut off all further knowledge of my claim. So, just exactly what IS my claim? Do you disagree with my claim? Am I wrong? Can it be known that I am correct in my claim?
.
So, I think your post deserves more attention.
.
The idea of certitude goes beyond what ever is available through observation and leans toward the area of the absolute; but, it allows for faith.
.
The idea of an absolute is that there can be no question--the idea is final and it does not depend on faith whatsoever.
.
There are facts that can be seen as absolute and, when they are, all options are cut off. The sun is the brightest object in our solar system is an absolute that shuts off all options of what other object might be brighter. So, there are absolutes with which we can be in agreement.
.
But, we're not speaking of such things. Instead, this idea has to do with truth and, in particular, truth about supernatural dimensions of reality and such things as an after life. We can, in our own minds, be certain of such things; but, not one of us can be certain that what we think is the absolute truth regarding such things.
.
And, yes, my statement is the absolute truth.
.
If we want to be generous and speak of our POV, point of view, then, we can be quite certain that we think in absolutes; but, to claim what we think is the absolute truth is to shut off all options--to bury whatever else we might otherwise take into consideration. We close our minds to any new input.
.
I guess the best graphic example one can give is a venn diagram. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venn_diagram
.
The very nature of the idea of an Absolute Truth is that it can not be refuted.
.

-- posted by pink101

Permalink Print Discussion Email Discussion How to subscribe to feeds

» pink101 - Speaking in Absolutes

In response to Speaking in Absolutes posted by BrianTubbs:
.
You have to give people the freedom, flexibility, and discretion to speak in absolute terms within the context of their POV.
.
People HAVE the freedom, flexibility, and discretion to speak in absolute terms within the context of their points of view. I certainly would not support any thing to the opposite.
.
But, THAT does not give them options beyond that which they claim to be Absolute Truth. The very fact that you say, POV, puts such a person in a position of danger. If it comes to be that I proclaim some absolute truth, the very description of what that means is that all options are off the table as far as my ability to learn further knowledge. It's over with--my mind has had its doors slammed shut in the area of that Absolute Truth.
.
The entire point of this thread is that Absolute Truth buries all other possibilities. And, further, that when we speak Absolute Truth about that for which we can have no verifiable proof, we kill all further searches for truth.
.
.

-- posted by pink101

Permalink Print Discussion Email Discussion How to subscribe to feeds

» pink101 - Consequentiality of the Absolute Truth

.
The consequentiality of the Absolute Truth about the End of Times sets aside one's ability to work toward long term goals for humanity.
.
Just in case anyone here thought that some one's ideas about Absolute Truth doesn't have any effect on their life.
.
We live in a society that is crippled when it comes to our sitting down together and working on long term goals for the good of all civilization.
.
When will we wake up to that fact?
.

-- posted by pink101

Permalink Print Discussion Email Discussion How to subscribe to feeds

» Brian Tubbs - End Times Absolutes

In response to Consequentiality of the Absolute Truth posted by pink101:

Chuck Colson, the former Watergate figure turned Christian, wrote an EXCELLENT book on this subject titled Kingdoms in Conflict. Though it is somewhat dated, I really think you (Pink) would enjoy the beginning scenario.

Colson has a Christian Right extremist President in the office who mandates kneel-down prayers in Cabinet meetings, consults theologians on matters of state, and then has to deal with a major Middle East crisis (and tries to do so with the Bible as his guide, and makes a muddle of things). I realize you're liable to say this describes George W. Bush to a 'T,' but before you do that, read the book.

I really think you'd enjoy it.

Permalink Print Discussion Email Discussion How to subscribe to feeds

» pink101 - End Times Absolutes

In response to End Times Absolutes posted by BrianTubbs:
.
One of the things I find most curious about the G.W. Bush administration of the presidency is the way he has brought so many sycophants around him in the same way that Hitler did that in Nazi Germany.
.
His, "you are either for me or against me mentality" is such an obvious part of his leadership style.
.
Or, did you think he had anyone on board that acted like the Devil's advocate?
.
Everyone around Bush has to suck up to him. I guess one gets that way from having been born into such great wealth and power.
.

.

-- posted by pink101

Permalink Print Discussion Email Discussion How to subscribe to feeds