Protestantism

» pink101 - Understanding Atonement

In response to One with God posted by _Boanerges_:

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My understanding of Atonement as a doctrine of the Christian faith is the idea that to be in Atonement is to be at one with God.
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What it means to be at one with God and how one gets to that place seems to be in dispute.
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Perhaps, my understanding is incorrect?
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-- posted by pink101

» _Boanerges_ - Understanding Atonement

In response to Understanding Atonement posted by pink101:

My understanding of Atonement as a doctrine of the Christian faith is the idea that to be in Atonement is to be at one with God.

okie.. show us how this is true, and why you believe it so...

What it means to be at one with God and how one gets to that place seems to be in dispute.

I suppose.. based upon the above description. But, if the above is wrong, then this also will be wrong...

Perhaps, my understanding is incorrect?

According to the doctrines of Christianity? I cannot see how you can come up with 'One with God'.. Maybe it would benefit your reasoning by providing this doctrine, according to what the Bible says..?

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» pink101 - Understanding Atonement

In response to Understanding Atonement posted by _Boanerges_:

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That's my understanding, Wendell.
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Would you like to explain your understanding?
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-- posted by pink101

» _Boanerges_ - Understanding Atonement

In response to Understanding Atonement posted by pink101:

Would you like to explain your understanding?

okie.. sure... Your understanding cannot be found in scripture - therefore - it is not a Christian doctrine, contrary to your claim that it is.. So accordingly, I dismiss you "idea" as nothing more than being a non-Christian doctrine.

...and please. do ask me to prove your point, as that is silly..

If you want to show to us where this can be found, from the scriptures, that would be just fine, as I've asked you already.

To make a claim that cannot be found - is easily - and rightfully - dismissed as such..... nothing more than a claim to be rejected...

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» pink101 - Understanding Atonement

In response to Understanding Atonement posted by _Boanerges_:

So, back to the point, Wendell.
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What IS your understanding. Will you explain it?
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Of course, you will want to back it up with scripture according to your prior statements about how mine cannot be backed up.
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Go for it.
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I'm interested in learning.
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-- posted by pink101

» _Boanerges_ - Understanding Atonement

What IS your understanding. Will you explain it?

From message #23 I offered a definition, as given in the dictionary, which I thought was a good one..

Atonement: the doctrine concerning the reconciliation of God and humankind, esp. as accomplished through the life, suffering, and death of Christ."

So - atonement would be considered - reconciliation...

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» pink101 - Let's See

In response to Understanding Atonement posted by _Boanerges_:
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Let's see if I understand what you're saying
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Reconciliation. AT--ONE--MENT once again?
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Does this mean that the atoned person and God are brought back to be one with each other--once again?
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So, then, would you be at one with God?
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Does that mean that all persons who are atoned are at one with you?
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Is that correct?
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Or am I just confused?
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-- posted by pink101

» _Boanerges_ - Let's See

In response to Let's See posted by pink101:

Reconciliation. AT--ONE--MENT once again?

no.. reconciliation is atonement.. not At One Ment.. I do not know what at one ment means....

Does this mean that the atoned person and God are brought back to be one with each other--once again?

once again? Does the bible say we were at one with each other - before something? If it does, I have never found it. If it does, would it no be easier for you to just show us what you are referring to?

....the atoned person and God are brought back...

No.. it means that the person has reconciled with God through the atonement of Jesus. The Bible does not say that we are at one with God. It states that we have peace with God - meaning we have escaped his judgment for those who refuse to be atoned...

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

So, then, would you be at one with God?

No...

Does that mean that all persons who are atoned are at one with you?

No...

Is that correct?

No...

Or am I just confused?

Confused? I don't know, are you confused? I do not think or believe you are confused.. However, I do believe you are attempting to justify your beliefs into the Christian doctrine, based upon what you believe something is - not according to what the scriptures claim something is. So, authority does not belong to me, but belongs to scripture...... Confused? no... Attempting to change something into another? Yes....

Now then... If you were to show us how we are "at one" with God, this would be so much easier.. because we have basically repeated the same things in these last several messages, and really, we are not accomplishing anything other than repeating the same thing.......

Is there anything else to add here? If so, please do that...

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» pink101 - Brian or Brother Jones

In response to Let's See posted by _Boanerges_:
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Wendell proposes, Now then... If you were to show us how we are "at one" with God, this would be so much easier..
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Maybe it would be better if Brian or Brother Jones explained it for us?
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They are credentialed.
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In the meantime, you might like to read this:
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http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02055a.h...
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For the sake of edification and so you can increase your understanding..
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-- posted by pink101

» _Boanerges_ - Brian or Brother Jones

In response to Brian or Brother Jones posted by pink101:

Maybe it would be better if Brian or Brother Jones explained it for us?

What is there to explain? I have already offered you what the Bible states... Here it is again:

Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

reconciled..... through Christ....

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

To claim someone is "at one" with God implies you are equal to God. In a previous statement, this is your implication. You stated:

"Does it not say that Jehovah, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are Three in One being able to be separate; yet, they are all one? So, in THAT sense, is not Jesus ONE with God? Is that what Jesus teaches us--that he and he alone is one with God and the Holy Spirit in his messages about Atonement?

yes....

then you add in another message:

"I'm thinking of the Atonement as being at one with God. Perhaps I am wrong?"

yes.. you are.. You are saying the YOU (meaning whoever) is AT ONE with GOd. However, the scriptures declare only that the Trinity is AT ONE together.....

You are trying to imply that atonement means we are AT ONE with GOd.. In fact, we are not. We are simply, RECONCILED to God, according to that which Jesus did.. The Atonement first comes from God - to Jesus (to satisfy Gods justice) and then finally, the believe must choose to believe (faith) that Christ died for us.......

So then.. we are reconciled THROUGH CHRIST.. as the Apostle Paul clearly teaches....... I believe you are trying to imply that all who are ATONED are AT ONE with God.. which, even according to your words, makes us EQUAL to God.. However, as is clearly shown, we are not EQUAL to God (at one) but are RECONCILED to God....

Not sure how much more of an explanation is required, when in fact, I have offered to you what scripture declares for itself. Yet, you still refuse to prove scripture to explain your position.... ?....

-- posted by _Boanerges_