Protestantism

» Brother_Jones - Early Expression of Christian Theology

In response to Early Expression of Christian Theology posted by BrianTubbs:

This represents the majority view of the early Christian congregations at the time Constantine came to power in the Roman world. It's as good a starting point as any.

It certainly would seem to begin the fall of the Church into apostatsy.
The 'law of oaths' which in Matthew 5:33-36 established the pretty near exact problem with the kind of thinking that would bring a result such as a creed or oath. Swearing, saying creeds and oath taking is not simply saying, 'yes or no.' It begs for evil to be residing on the scene because of the nature of who you are swearing to, almost always not to God but to men. Men decide that the bible is confusing and unclear and then seek to document or list the 'true' belief in a Statement of Beliefs or a Creed. It is a thin line and crossed readily by those who would proceed to what the Creed terms to anathematize. Mighty fine, then just suppose one such Christians agrees to all the terms and conditions of the Creed, save for the idea that he/she is not too really keen on anathematizing their spouse. What then? Does such a person get anathematized for not totaly buying into anathematizing? Good heavens! Am I beginning to sound like the Liberals?

Who can define and give an appropriate Christian definition to anathematize?

If one be a 3rd century Catholic, then one could. If the Creed Creators were the majority view of early Christianity, then it would seem obvious to followers of Christ that early Christianity took a major mistep and begins to depart from Christ.

33 "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.' 34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne; 35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black.
It seems it would be fairly easy to deconstruct Christianity by beginning with a (creed) corrupt version of it.

Am I somehow showing my very old Church of Christ roots? lol.

i am just an oldtimer in the Lord.

-- posted by Brother_Jones

» pink101 - Early Expression of Christian Theology

In response to Early Expression of Christian Theology posted by BrianTubbs:

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So, in the first instance, it looks to me as though the Church in this Nicene Creed, declares a curse on all those who do not agree with its statement about the identity of the Lord Jesus Christ.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Descent into Apostasy

In response to Early Expression of Christian Theology posted by Brother_Jones:

Yes, Brother Jones. The Council of Nicea marked a major turning point in the Christian church becoming a state-sponsored religion and, yes, a descent into apostasy. HOWEVER...

The Nicene Creed also represents the earliest documented CONSENSUS of the Christian congregations in the known world at that time. No skeptic can challenge its authenticity in that regard.

» Brother_Jones - Descent into Apostasy

In response to Descent into Apostasy posted by BrianTubbs:

No skeptic can challenge its authenticity in that regard.

Maybe I can be the first sceptic in line. I don't regard those churches as being examples of authentic Christian churches or examples of early Christianity. By the time of the Creed, they had left the faith, imo.

i am the Lord's oldtimer.

-- posted by Brother_Jones

» pink101 - The Question

In response to Descent into Apostasy posted by BrianTubbs:
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"...earliest documented CONSENSUS of the Christian congregations..." (My emphasis)
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I'm sure you are correct in your statements here; but, the question we might ask has to do with the identity of any congregation that was involved. Were the common people seen as members of the congregations? Doesn't the Catholic Church have a long history of using that word to identify the gatherings of church authorities in its various degrees?
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Descent into Apostasy

In response to Descent into Apostasy posted by Brother_Jones:

Speaking as one who has studied church history, your comments remind me of some of my fellow "Trail of Blood" Baptists. I AGREE with you that the Christian church, by Nicea, had many problems. But I think you're being too dismissive and judgmental.

» Brian Tubbs - The Question

In response to The Question posted by pink101:

The Council of Nicea was called in the same spirit as the Council which we see in Acts 15. The congregations, at the time of Nicea, were still relatively autonomous - ALTHOUGH some regions of the Roman world were more structured than others.

» pink101 - The Question

In response to The Question posted by BrianTubbs:
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Here's some examples of the Roman Catholic idea of congregation:
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congregation of the holy cross, congregation of the inquisition, blessed sacrament congregation of the, calvary congregation of our lady of
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and here is a link with more information:
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http://www.onelook.com/?w=**congregation...
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-- posted by pink101

» Brother_Jones - Descent into Apostasy

In response to Descent into Apostasy posted by BrianTubbs:

I AGREE with you that the Christian church, by Nicea, had many problems.

I tend to think it a good sign when folk do agree with me.

But I think you're being too dismissive and judgmental.
About what? I am starting to get interested in the thread now. Maybe my church history knowledge could use a little jolt. It looks like we have on the table a little problem called, anathematize. I guess it could be a big problem, but maybe you could explain the early Christians and their understanding of this concept. I got my own thoughts and ideas, but I would like to hear from you first.

i am the Lord's oldtimer.

-- posted by Brother_Jones

» Brother_Jones - The Question

In response to The Question posted by BrianTubbs:

The Council of Nicea was called in the same spirit as the Council which we see in Acts 15.

Here is where you seem to go offline and seem to show some sort of bias to some sort of personal knowledge of the motivations of men who clearly were not following New Testment examples of local leadership. They may have been faithful (so maybe I need to emphasize my own bias) Christians, but by this time in church history they seem to be chasing a different Spirit than found in Acts 15, as assumed in your idea that they knew something about church autonomy.

You can't have it both ways.

i am the Lord's oldtimer.

-- posted by Brother_Jones