Protestantism

» Migisi - Subjective/Objective?

In response to Subjective/Objective? posted by pink101:
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To be blunt (obtuse)... I'd rather be subjective than subjected, and be objective rather than objectionable. (wink and )
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Gotta go... I'll be back. (You've been warned. Hee hee.)
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-- posted by Migisi

» redback - Speaking Of Objectivity....

In response to Speaking Of Objectivity.... posted by pink101:

"Chains, my baby's got me caught up in chains..." now you join in the song. OK...well maybe I caught your vibes...and returned. Body willing.

Speaking of 'objectivity' in the context of this topic, I'm not sure that 'objectification' is the same bedfellow-in-crime.

The Bible intends to be more dynamic than the fact it may at times be made of paper and leather-bound, doesn't it? Its teachings "live" through its varied interpretations and experiences of theory vs world-practice. And its life is not without infected pimples. Christianity has self-inflicted wounds from its use of the Bible. But do they hold a monopoly in pimples?

Non-Christians have an arguably easier road to hoe. They need make no compromises in their understandings (of Christianity) whereas it sometimes seems to me the Christian is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. His faith is "weak" if he concedes a point...and overbearing if his faith is too strong and his articulation of it too weak. So, while I don't agree with many views, I'm emapthetic.

But I'm coming from a place where the Bible seems to accept there ARE other gods, whether or not it was God's intent to create such a perception. These gods may not rank as God the creator but it may well be I belong to children of a lesser god. A lifetime ago, my supervisor made more relative sense, had more control, than the CEO...and life continued as if there was no CEO. The CEO also promised "heaven". An analogy?

I'm not privy to your dictionary, but to me, the whole Christian faith is objectified to some logical extent. Does it lead to Bible-worship, church building worship...or should it? What's an option? To "personalise" the Bible etc so that for example, the sense of it is contained within Brian et al's heart? And let's not go back to what that body organ really does.

I don't know much about Mark 2:17 but maybe objectification of the Bible or church whatever, is best left to the righteous and Jesus goes elsewhere for all else. Churches preach to the converted and sinners aren't needed there...until they repent. Mark's 'OR ELSE' dilemna?

-- posted by redback

» pink101 - Speaking Of Objectivity....

In response to Speaking Of Objectivity.... posted by redback:

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I remember a long conversation I had with a friend who has since earned her PhD.
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She discussed the idea of objectification and, so, I agree with you that it sets up a different situation.
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Sometimes, when we are immersed in a subject so deep that we cannot be objective about it, we might attempt to objectify the item in our mind so we can develop and practice a sort of objectivity.
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Does that make any sense?
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-- posted by pink101

» pink101 - Some Objectivity On Christianity

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http://web.mit.edu/smcs/commforum/2007/m...
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A discussion you can hear from MIT.
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-- posted by pink101

» _Boanerges_ - Some truth about Christianity!

http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/thru_...

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» _Boanerges_ - No one could accuse you of being a B.S. artist, could they?

In response to Originally Claimed posted by pink101:
JEHOVAH'S WITNESS
* Authority: Studies in the Scriptures by Charles Taze Russell are indispensable in interpreting the Bible.
* God: There is only one God. Jehovah God is eternal and the sole Creator of the Universe. The doctrine of the Trinity is not in the Bible.
* Jesus Christ: Jesus was not God, merely the Son of God. If Jesus was God, He could not have died.
* Man: Man sinned but his soul is not eternal. He becomes unconscious after death.
* Salvation: Jesus paid a ransom to Jehovah God and His death removed Adam's sin to all who accept it.
* Heaven: You must follow Jesus faithfully until death in order to gain immortality and have any part in the His Kingdom.
* Hell: There is no literal hell or eternal torture; those who reject Jehovah will be annihilated.
* Second Coming: Jesus Christ returned in 1914 as a spirit creature, not physically, and is currently establishing the Millennial Kingdom.

MORMONISM

* Authority: The Bible as it is translated correctly, Doctrines and Covenants, The Pearl of Great Price, and The Book of Mormon by Joseph Smith.
* God: There are many gods in heaven. God used to be a man and eventually became an exalted being.
* Jesus Christ: Jesus was not conceived by the Holy Spirit; Jesus is our elder brother, conceived by Adam.
* Man: Man has the capability of becoming God.
* Salvation: Faith in Christ, baptism, good works, and being a member of the Mormon church. There is no atonement in the blood of Jesus Christ for sin.
* Heaven: There are three heavens: telestial, terrestrial, and celestial. In the celestial heaven, each Mormon eventually becomes a god.
* Hell: The telestial heaven where those who have rejected the Gospel and those are suffering in hell until the last resurrection.
* Second Coming: Jesus Christ will physically return, He will gather Mormons in Missouri, and God's judgment will fall on the entire world except in Jerusalem.

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» _Boanerges_ - Whats is Christianity?

HOW TO BE BORN AGAIN

* The Sinner: "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." Romans 3:23
* The Problem: "Jesus answered. . .Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:3
* The Sentence: "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23
* The Savior: "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8
* The Solution: "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:9
* The Timing: "Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation." II Corinthians 6:2
* Your Acceptance of God's Gift: If you really believe that Jesus Christ took your place in judgment for your sins on the Cross, you can pray the following prayer.
* The Prayer: Lord Jesus Christ, be merciful to me a sinner. I do now receive you as my personal Lord and Savior.
* The Result: If you sincerely prayed the above prayer, you are now born again! John 3:3
* Welcome to God's Family: "Therefore if any man (or woman) be in Christ, he (or she) is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." II Corinthians 5:17

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» redback - Speaking Of Objectivity....

In response to Speaking Of Objectivity.... posted by pink101:

"Does that make any sense?" YES

When you and Boanerges carry one oneliner responses to each other, tis easier coz you both appear to be online at the same time. But I'm less excited about waiting 36 hours or so to see if my posts go beyond one-liner responses. So, please have patience with me as I work on less thoughtful posts that if are drowned out in the deluge of supervening posts, matter less. ABC

The 'objectivity' you speak of creates safety zones...easier-to deal-with issues, less discretion, shades of grey etc. That's needed by some folk methinks. The 'questioning' you speak of seeks to challenge any self imposed limitations to our safety zones and IMO can't be all bad. This is re the process so doesn't always mean I agree with how you attempt to challenge my zones or your own.

-- posted by redback

» pink101 - Speaking Of Objectivity....

In response to Speaking Of Objectivity.... posted by redback:

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Yes, I agree with you; but, we don't come here looking so much for agreement as we do to try out our ideas and to develop understandings.
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We live in Postmodern times.
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If we are diligent post-moderns, we will seek understanding and, more importantly, comprehension--even in the finest detail. So, we want to understand each other in a way people have not done so in past times.
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I want to understand people who live in Australia and you might want to understand people up here on the top side. Maybe?
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The 'objectivity' you speak of creates safety zones...easier-to deal-with issues, less discretion, shades of grey etc.
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Maybe our attempt to objectify creates, to use one of Brian's words, a "strawman" situation that can be examined as though we were removed from it enough to be objective?
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Is that what you're saying?
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-- posted by pink101

» redback - Speaking Of Objectivity....

In response to Speaking Of Objectivity.... posted by pink101:

You still rely on making attempts to describe what WE come here to do but any one of us may come here to eg see if ANYONE agrees with US. Tis a different focus to how you express it, maybe a different priority to what you seek.

RE: "Is that what you're saying?"

The objectivity comment I made linking to safety zones and the related comment intended to supplement/support your comments. But I don't think your translation of my comments has tagged it. I'm talking instead of the person that attains far more simplicity in their lives. They are instructed by 'it' not guided by it. When you paraphrase what Brian is alluding to with the "strawmen" when I don't recall reading his statement and with what I know of the "Strawmen Principle"...it's probably NOT what I'm saying.

For every comment questioning the Christian's capacity for objectivity and vice versa, I often ponder the 3rd and more sides of that coin. A Christian who recognises the very clear parameters of their faith may far more easily identify issues requiring objective thought but have challenges in pursuing them. The other (opposing?) committed person may have a mind full of overlapping free-range concepts that make it hard to see the forest for the trees...on matters that matter. Being objective can call on someone outside. Being outside (the house) one doesn't know what 'TV program' the occupants are being influenced by etc. And so on.

"If we are diligent post-moderns..."

We? Until I get my head around what an unorthodox Christian may be, I'm not sure if I need to see how a "diligent post-modern' label may fit me or fit the context of my posts here.

To refer to another topic, I'll do my best to understand AND won't demand you learn my language...as a reciprocal courtesy.

But I think you ARE right if you mean that a person who argues is more likely to get a response than one whose posts may simply call for agreement. So WHY do I come here if I won't or can't accept that truth.

-- posted by redback