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ProtestantismObjectivity
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Migisi, my declaration of belief in the Bible and my affection for the Bible are most certainly NOT "demonstrable facts" in the strict sense. (At least not now. I believe they will be at some time in the future - when God makes Himself known, but that's another topic). However, my statement that the Bible is one of the most interesting and influential books in human history IS very demonstrable. The fact that it's the all-time leading international bestseller is rather telling, don't you think? And that's just one piece of evidence in its favor. What book, other than possibly the Koran, has had more worldwide and long-term impact on the world than the Bible? » _Boanerges_ - Regarding the Bible In response to Regarding the Bible posted by BrianTubbs:
I will go out on a limb and declare it - not only fact - but anyone would be very hard pressed to name another that has surpassed the 66 books of the Bible!.. -- posted by _Boanerges_ » pink101 - Objectivity & Subjectivity .Quick definitions (OBJECTIVITY) # noun: judgment based on observable phenomena and uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices . Quick definitions (SUBJECTIVITY) # noun: judgment based on individual personal impressions and feelings and opinions rather than external facts -- posted by pink101 » Migisi - My response to Brian In response to My response to Migisi posted by BrianTubbs:. The fact that it's the all-time leading international bestseller is rather telling, don't you think? And that's just one piece of evidence in its favor. . You're right about that. It tops the list here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bes... with 5 to 6 billion. That would make sense, since it's been around for centuries, so obviously more people would have it. And you're just not a Christian family if everyone in yours doesn't own one. But how many people have actually read the book cover to cover? I'd like to see an honest survey of those stats. Certainly not all 6 billion. In my big family, only two have read it... my older sister and I. That's it! . Don't get me wrong, Bri. I do find the book interesting. And there's no question that it has influenced(s) people and nations. But, IMO, most of that influence comes(came) from the pulpit - from preachers, priests, and popes on whom the masses rely for their instruction on godly things. Not from the book directly. . What book, other than possibly the Koran, has had more worldwide and long-term impact on the world than the Bible? . No doubt it's had impact on the world. Some positive, some negative (the Crusades, the Inquisitions, witch hunts, abuse and domination of native peoples worldwide, etc.). Interestingly, comparatively recent works - the Máo-zhuxí yulù (Quotations from Chairman Mao - 1966) ranks second on the best seller list (900 million), and the Koran (600s CE) holds third (800 million). -- posted by Migisi » pink101 - My response to Brian In response to My response to Brian posted by Migisi:. Migisi is quoted--in bold-- in the opening posts of this thread as have posted, So, again I ask, is objectivity regarding the Bible even possible for Christians? My OPINION is 'no'. . I am beginning to agree with her--at least in so far as Wendell and Brian are concerned. Their subjectivity seems to pervade several issues regarding their beliefs. I think that Brother Jones tries to be objective in much of what he posts. . . -- posted by pink101 » redback - My response to Brian In response to My response to Brian posted by Migisi:
OK...I'm back for a while having partially got through some dramas partially OK. This helps me be distracted. Migisi. I'm a bit puzzled. You seemed to indicate above (in Brian's re-telling) that once everyone agrees, there is 'objectivity'. Well, it makes an objective fact simply that everyone agrees. But that's only being unanimous, isn't it? I'm wondering what is bad about a mix of subjective and objective considerations. Tis a big ask to get anyone purely objective here, methinks. And as if politics will ever try to be objective without taking subjective needs into account? I'm wondering about the best performance indicator for the Bible. Having it on the bookshelf in case the priest calls, citing it in matters of great social importance so that great good or great bad can be attributed to it...or in an individual's value-added spiritual journey that can't be measured externally except in subjective terms. Everyone seems to agree the Bible is sorta interesting which seems a quantity over quality statement given the qualifications? Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows will probably be interesting throughout all its chapters to many eager readers (not me). Despite Boanerges 'courageous' claims, methinks the 66(??) books of the Bible won't pass the same test. But tis not a test of it being interesting is it? At least some of the 66 books are claimed to be almost pre-requisite reading ie "important". Unless you take the priest's word for it? In these days, I would have thought books on economic rationalism or books that instruct in modern hygiene and best surgical practice have great impact and inportance. Great good and great bad also come from these. Give an inch and they'll take a mile? Crikey, if I concede any of you guys can make a good point, don't hold me to it! ABC -- posted by redback » pink101 - Speaking Of Objectivity.... In response to My response to Brian posted by redback:. Heh heh . I pulled your chain an hour or so ago when I wondered how things are going with you? . Then, I open up this thread, and there you are. . Of course, your comments are correct. There is little chance we can ever be purely objective about anything. . I watched an excellent book review the other day on Crashing Through, a story about a man who had his sight restored after forty years or so since an accident blinded him when he was three years old. . http://www.reviewsofbooks.com/crashing_t... . Speaking of objectivity. . Apparently, when we are developing our senses--after we have been born into our physical environment--we learn how to comprehend what it is to which we are exposed. An interesting phenomenon is exposed in this story about Mike May who, now that his sight has been restored, is unable to distinguish the meanings of different facial features and other sight specifics. Scholars in Vision Science tell us that during our formative years we develop patterns in our brain for identifying highly specific differences in what we see. Would that be akin to objectivity? . Could it be true that what we learn at our mother's knee limits or expands our ability to be objective? . -- posted by pink101 » Migisi - My response to Jeff In response to My response to Brian posted by redback:. Well, it makes an objective fact simply that everyone agrees. But that's only being unanimous, isn't it? . Unanimous indicates concensus, but does consensus make something an 'absolute truth'? . I'm wondering what is bad about a mix of subjective and objective considerations. . Not a thing. My only problem is when one confuses the two. . Everyone seems to agree the Bible is sorta interesting which seems a quantity over quality statement given the qualifications? . 'Interesting' ,in itself, is subjective. Some find the variety of spiritual concepts expressed in the book interesting; others find the myths and legends of ancient cultures interesting; others find the language art - the prose, poetry, symbolism, and allegories - interesting; some find the characters interesting. If ~everyone~ was asked, we'd likely get a myriad of answers. . Crikey, if I concede any of you guys can make a good point, don't hold me to it! . You're too slippery to hold. Tee hee. 
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Brian Tubbs
