Protestantism

» Brian Tubbs - Truth and Objectivity

Do we all agree that there things which can be considered absolute TRUTHS? There ARE facts. Are we agreed on that?

The issue then becomes....

Is it possible for human beings to be purely OBJECTIVE in the pursuit of knowing those truths or facts?

I would say that it is NOT possible for us to be wholly or purely objective on matters which we don't have all the information.

Christianity as a whole qualifies. I can't be fully objective about my Christian faith overall just as I can't be fully objective about my relationship with my wife, who I of course love very much. Or my beautiful children. See the subjectivity.

Still...there are certain points or facts ABOUT those things that I CAN be objective concerning. For instance, I can objectively and factually state that my oldest child is eight years old.

I can objectively and factually state that my wife was born in Italy, but to American parents.

I can objectively state that Jesus Christ was a first century historical figure. I realize there are a few people out there (such as Migisi) who question that or challenge that, but...

I think the burden of proof rests on those people who would argue that the person all those first century people followed and wrote about was made up! Few people question the historicity of Peter, for example, and we know Peter spoke of Jesus - died for him, in fact. Did Peter make Jesus up?

There are facts, points of evidence that we can objectively bring to bear to support certain conclusions or contentions.

A historian can objectively study and analyze events of the past.

Now, I will agree that we are moving in the DIRECTION of subjectivity, but we haven't gone all the way over there.

I'm sorry if I'm not making a lot of sense. It's been a long day.

» Brian Tubbs - The Writers' Forum

In response to The Writers' Forum posted by pink101:

You should sign up to be a Contributing Writer, Phil. You've got good ideas and you love to write and participate here at the Suite. Sign up. And then you can participate in the writers' forums too.

» pink101 - The Writers' Forum

In response to The Writers' Forum posted by BrianTubbs:
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I have been a contributing writer with editorial rights.
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I remember the discussions we had in the Writers' Forum.
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Wendell was a contributing writer with editorial rights as well.
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I'm content to be less controlled by deadlines.
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-- posted by pink101

» redback - My response to Jeff

In response to My response to Jeff posted by Migisi:

I was considering everyone's responses in my post to you and Pink's reminder of your: "So, again I ask, is objectivity regarding the Bible even possible for Christians? My OPINION is 'no'."

I also recall something I posted a while back to the tune of: Do good intentions outweigh a harmful result? (In context with one's use of the Bible in their daily lives)

I reckon I made a pretty good fist of analysing the difference between subjectivity and objectivity in my earlier life. And to Brian's question, I remain fascinated by the philosophical question raised some 40 years ago by a former colleague and PhD student...about whether we can have complete self-knowledge.

I agree with you, I think. Consensus does not equal objectivity IMO nor does consensus create absolute truth. But then, can it? If the whole world, including me, were unanimous in agreeing I am the least important person in my street, what would prevent it happening? Kinda makes me think the dictionary is way up there in 'importance' if postings to these topics are anything to go by.

-- posted by redback

» redback - Speaking Of Objectivity....

In response to Speaking Of Objectivity.... posted by pink101:

"Heh heh I pulled your chain an hour or so ago when I wondered how things are going with you?"

There are too many topics here archived for want of a feature writer for me to go searching for your chain pulling. Sometimes people who think they are pulling another's appliance are mistaken and should keep their hands on the table.

Motherhood statements derive from the Bible, possibly?

"Could it be true that what we learn at our mother's knee limits or expands our ability to be objective?"

Are mothers' knees the bees' knees? My mother and yours had less in common methinks about our relative capacity to develop the theory of objectivity and possibly less still with what we did with it. Mike May's story is not astonishing to me. The profoundly deaf child who gains cochlear ear implants but finds 'noise' for the first time has a similar thread.

"...we develop patterns in our brain for identifying highly specific differences in what we see. Would that be akin to objectivity?"

If you think that, tis 'interesting'.

-- posted by redback

» redback - Truth and Objectivity

In response to Truth and Objectivity posted by BrianTubbs:

"Is it possible for human beings to be purely OBJECTIVE in the pursuit of knowing those truths or facts?"

There's something about the question that seems self-limiting to me. There can be several avenues and manners of enquiry/actions that give us answers. What is irrelevant and to be discarded may be a truth-in-waiting, not a premature strategy to be discarded along the way. Objectivity is a tool, not a purpose.

Brian, the philosophical term re self-knowledge I was referring to above is 'incorrigible knowledge' but I now can't track down its definition. Loved the term as it conjured up something entirely different. Have you heard of it?

OK...my (indulgent) 3rd consec post. I'm outa here for a wee while as the distraction isn't working.

-- posted by redback

» pink101 - Speaking Of Objectivity....

In response to Speaking Of Objectivity.... posted by redback:

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All the chain pulling was done in my mind. Strictly psychic--nothing in any of the posts.
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Just a coincidence, I reckon.
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-- posted by pink101

» pink101 - Speaking Of Objectivity....

In response to Speaking Of Objectivity.... posted by pink101:

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Seems to me I recall discussions in college where the consensus was that total objectivity was an impossibility in any case.
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Objectification removes personal and or emotional sensitivities in regards to any issue under consideration. It is sort of a "what if" test.
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So, would it be possible for a Christian to objectify the Bible?
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Maybe so...
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-- posted by pink101

» _Boanerges_ - “You’re Not Objective So Your Opinion Doesn’t Count”

"You're Not Objective so Your Opinion Doesn't Count" - A Response ??
© 2005 Steve Wagner
Stand to Reason
www.STR.org

(pdf format)
http://www.str.org/site/DocServer/you_re...

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» pink101 - “You’re Not Objective So Your Opinion Doesn’t Count”

In response to "You're Not Objective So Your Opinion Doesn't Count" posted by _Boanerges_:
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If college professors and instructors allowed such interferences in their class rooms, they would find it difficult if not impossible to complete their syllabus which could lead to their dismissal.
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To upset and or to derail any discussion in a college classroom amounts to a pestilential malignancy--like a mental disease. Especially under circumstances where students pay premium prices for matriculation, books, time, and materials.
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The recommendation made in your link is nonsense and detrimental to the educational process. Students who habitually perform in such a way can be suspended from classes.
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-- posted by pink101