Protestantism

» Brother_Jones - YOU Make My Point For Me

In response to YOU Make My Point For Me posted by pink101:

By being the final authority of what it means to be a Christian. Those people who don't line up with you are separated from Jesus.

Do you ever actually get involved with reality? People separate from Jesus because they love their sin and they feel controled by Satan. It almost never is about whether they can quite determine their doctrinal stance. If you spent time talking to troubled people you would know that.

i am just an oldtimer for the Lord.

-- posted by Brother_Jones

» Brian Tubbs - Truly don't understand

In response to So My Question posted by Migisi:

Pink and Migisi,

This is a situation where I truly don't get it. Why is it that I'm "arrogant" or "extreme" or "intolerant"?

All I'm doing is holding up the ORIGINAL MEANING of the term "Christian" - and saying that, based on that ORIGINAL MEANING, only those who embrace Jesus as their divine and risen Lord qualify.

Pink, I've already acknowledged that the term has changed - that its meaning has evolved, that it's broadened out to include more people. I'm not setting myself up as an arbiter of who can call themselves a Christian TODAY. People can call themselves anything they want. If someone here wants to call himself or herself a Martian, for example, go right ahead.

All I'm saying is that, when the term was first coined, it applied to those who embraced Jesus as their risen Lord. I consider myself a "Christian" based on that original meaning.

If you and Migisi consider that extremist or arrogant, so be it.

» pink101 - Truly don't understand

In response to Truly don't understand posted by BrianTubbs:
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I think you are correct that YOU don't UNDERSTAND.
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I gave three examples as definitions of the word, Christian.
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1. Yours
2. One I called "Moderate"
3. One I called "Extreme"
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And, in making further comment, I referred to "Yours" as the "Other Extreme" in relation to the one I called "Extreme" and the one I put in the middle by calling it the "Moderate"..
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Tell me how that gets to be me saying that you are extreme.
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You misread me--often.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - from another thread...

In response to Truly don't understand posted by pink101:

Pink writes:

This reminds me of the comments made by others here who claim to be Evangelicals of one degree or another. Self-claimed Christian? Is there some kind of an ordination required to be made by the self righteous "Christians" among us that a person must be officially declared as a Christian.

There is no tribunal set up to decide who IS a Christian or who is NOT a Christian. Other than the one referred to at the end of the book of Revelation, and that's not a tribunal which concerns itself with titles - but rather someone's name is written in the "book of life." I have no comment on the "book of life," Pink, beyond what's in the Bible.

As for who may or may not call themselves "Christian," I will only reiterate what has already been said...

A person can proclaim himself or herself to be anything. A self-proclamation means only that a person sees himself or herself a certain way - or wishes others to do the same. That's about it.

Based on the ORIGINAL UNDERSTANDING of the term "Christian," however, I think it's fair to say that Christians believe Jesus to be their divine Lord and Savior - that he came into the world to take upon himself the penalty of their sins, that he was cruficied, and rose from the dead - and is now in heaven.

Now, again, that's NOT me imposing ANYTHING on anyone! I'm simply pointing to the ORIGINAL UNDERSTANDING of the term "Christian."

If you or someone else wishes to reject that original definition and embrace a broader definition, that's your perogative to do so. You can proclaim yourself to be whatever you want.

» pink101 - Whatever You Want.

In response to from another thread... posted by BrianTubbs:
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In response to the question I posed regarding Kim's comments about the author of the Harry Potter series of books, Brian posits, "You can proclaim yourself to be whatever you want.".
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So respectfully, Brian, who is it that gives YOU the righteousness to claim yourself as a Christian?
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-- posted by pink101

» _Boanerges_ - from another thread...

In response to from another thread... posted by BrianTubbs:

Christians believe Jesus to be their divine Lord and Savior - that he came into the world to take upon himself the penalty of their sins, that he was cruficied, and rose from the dead - and is now in heaven.

which is the 'gospel message'.... as quoted from the NT....

1Corinthians 15
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» Brian Tubbs - Righteousness?

In response to Whatever You Want. posted by pink101:

Pink, once again, I don't get where you're coming from. You ask what gives me the "righteousness" to "proclaim" myself a Christian. I don't 'get' the question.

I can call myself whatever I want - just as you can.

If you're asking me in the biblical/historical context (again, I refer you to the ORIGINAL MEANING of the term "Christian"), then my answer is simple. I have chosen to put my trust in Jesus Christ because I am NOT righteous! Who I am will NOT get me to heaven. What Jesus DID gives me the opportunity to get to heaven. I am trusting in His righteousness, not mine.

» pink101 - Righteousness?

In response to Righteousness? posted by BrianTubbs:
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In the context which I used the word, righteousness, the meaning is a form of the plural of the word, right.
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The original question was about where the right to declare someone a self-claimed Christian comes from.
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I think the usage is insulting and prejudiced and an example of self righteousness.
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It looks like you're saying that you think you get your right to decide who is and is not a Christian out of the Bible.
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-- posted by pink101

» pink101 - Righteousness?

In response to Righteousness? posted by pink101:

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Biblically speaking, that puts you in the Seat of Moses, doesn't it?
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - What are we debating here?

In response to Righteousness? posted by pink101:

Pink, my understanding of this discussion was that it concerned the definition of "Christian." I have already said that the definition has expanded to mean different things to different people. For my own part, I think the original definition makes the most sense and is my preferred definition. Is it unreasonable for me to make that statement?

I just don't get how it's "self-righteous" on my part to point out the biblical/historical definition of "Christian." If I'm incorrect in my understanding of the historical record, then - by all means - correct me. But don't accuse me of being self-righteous.

Either I'm right about the original meaning of the term or I'm not. Self-righteousness has NOTHING to do with it.

Now, if we're arguing what it takes to be "saved" or what it takes to "get to heaven" - then I by NO means am putting myself on any seat of judgment. All I can do is point to what the Bible says on the subject. If someone chooses to reject the Bible, that's their decision. But don't put me in a position where I have to also reject the Bible or else be accused of being 'self-righteous.'

I have no power to render judgment on anyone, nor do I have the desire to do so.