Protestantism

» pink101 - Extremist Views

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We've discussed the United States as having been founded as a Christian nation.
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Generally, when I was a elementary school boy, it was openly accepted that the United States as a Christian nation. No one denied it as far as I can recall.
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When me and my class mates stood up in our school during roll call, we had been taught to respond with a wise saying or with a Bible verse. No one baulked at that. But, it had to be some new saying or verse every day and it had to be done from memory.
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I have a distinct recollection of my fourth grade teacher, when I was in the city school, as she talked with us about the word, Christian, and of what it meant. Pretty much, she said, it had to do with the Golden Rule.
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We were all Christians; because, we were all Americans.
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But, that is not the case today. Extremist views have caused various tests to be used to verify one's status when it comes to being a Christian. In another thread, Brother Jones made a joking comment about that there was a Christian, an Agnostic, and an Atheist in on the conversation. And, I came back with a joking response that I was the Christian and I asked how the other two were identified. The response of some others was interesting to say the least.
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So, when we discuss these questions in public, what is the definition to which we must be held regarding our status as Christians?
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Christian

In response to Extremist Views posted by pink101:

It's ALWAYS most appropriate, when understanding the meaning of a term, to look back to how the term originated. That gives you its root meaning. I understand that languages change, but you can't go wrong by going back to the foundations.

In the case of "Christian," the term is first used in the book of Acts (Acts 11:26) - and it was used to describe the "disciples" in Antioch. The "disciples," in this context, appear to be not only the remaining core disciples - the original twelve - but also the extended followers of Jesus Christ.

Here's the catch. This was AFTER Jesus' death and resurrection. According to Acts, the early church was founded on the belief that Jesus was RISEN from the dead, that He was God in the flesh and the means of salvation. (Read Peter's speech at Pentecost).

It is NOT an "extremist view," Phil, but one consistent with the ORIGINAL use of the term to say...

A Christian (biblically speaking) is one who embraces the deity and resurrection of Jesus Christ - and who claims Jesus as his or her Lord and Savior.

» pink101 - Christian

In response to Christian posted by BrianTubbs:
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If this moderate definition appears in a dictionary, one who follows the teachings or manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus Christ, would that satisfy you with no further ado?
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Or, how about, One born in a Christian country or of Christian parents, and who has not definitely becomes an adherent of an opposing system.
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How do you feel about that extreme definition?
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Or would you want to use the other extreme definition you provided above?
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This area may be quite significant to our understanding of the idea that America was founded as a Christian nation.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Christian

In response to Christian posted by pink101:

Western civilization (primarily western Europe) was once called "Christendom," due to the erroneus belief that all those who came from a society steeped in Christian lore and tradition were (unless they moved or openly renounced the faith) at least loosely considered "Christian."

I find that perspective - still held by some - to be flawed. Nevertheless, if one embraces it, then that would be one reason to call the United States a "Christian" nation.

» Brian Tubbs - Extreme Position - NOT!

In response to Christian posted by pink101:

Pink, I'm going to be a little heavy-handed here, but it's frankly RIDICULOUS for you to call my definition "extreme" considering that I'm basing it on the ORIGINAL UNDERSTANDING of the term!

The term "Christian" was first used - as far as we know - in Antioch and was applied to those who believed in a risen and divine Jesus Christ. That is as close to a historical fact as you can get in this debate, Pink.

Now, I will GRANT that the term has been distorted and broadened in the intervening years - much like the word "ain't" is now in the English dictionary. So, yeah, the definitions have changed. And, accordingly, the definition you've offered IS among those accepted by many.

And while I can admit that your broader, more "moderate" definition is now in play, it is altogether inappropriate for YOU to label the ORIGINAL definition/meaning of the term as being "extreme."

» pink101 - Extreme Position - NOT!

In response to Extreme Position - NOT! posted by BrianTubbs:
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"...while I can admit that your broader, more "moderate" definition is now in play, it is altogether inappropriate for YOU to label the ORIGINAL definition/meaning of the term as being "extreme.""
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I allowed three definitions; #1. yours, #2. a moderate one, and, #3. one I called extreme. And, I refered to yours as being the opposite of the #3. that I gave calling it the "other" extreme. I thought that was fair.
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Do you realize that the third definition I gave was from a 1913 edition of the Webster dictionary? Back then, all Americans were considered Christians and our culture was thought of as a Christian culture.
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Something has happened since then to cause your definition to be the more popular one. Best guess I can give for that is that we are turning away from secularism to sectarianism and that "ain't" good. Most of the rancor here can be attributed to sectarianism.
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BTW, as far a original use of the word, Christian, is concerned, a person had to be a Jew in order to be a Christian.
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I kind of like the Catholic word, Jesuit.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Christians and Jews

In response to Extreme Position - NOT! posted by pink101:

...as far a original use of the word, Christian, is concerned, a person had to be a Jew in order to be a Christian.

The term "Christian" came about at around the same time Christianity spread to the Gentiles. So, this isn't entirely correct, although there were some JEWISH Christians who more or less would have agreed with you.