Protestantism

» pink101 - Obtuse

In response to My Purpose posted by redback:
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"please don't be obtuse about 'argument'..."
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THIS is turning into an argument and that is not anything of interest to me.
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My interest was, is, and will be here to not argue; but, to explore the ideas of what it means to be an intellectual.
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My entire purpose for mentioning the non-intellectual was to gain some understanding of how there might be some perspective regarding the idea of intellectuality.
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I've read the curve balls that have been thrown here as though we're playing a game.
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Have fun.
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-- posted by pink101

» _Boanerges_ - intellectual dishonesty

In response to Obtuse posted by pink101:

Intellectual dishonesty is the advocacy of a position known to be false. Rhetoric is used to advance an agenda or to reinforce one's deeply held beliefs in the face of overwhelming contrary evidence. If a person is aware of the evidence and the conclusion it portends, yet holds a contradictory view, it is intellectual dishonesty. If the person is unaware of the evidence, their position is ignorance, even if in agreement with the scientific conclusion.

The terms intellectually dishonest and intellectual dishonesty are often used as rhetorical devices in a debate; the label invariably frames an opponent in a negative light. It is an obfuscatory way to say "you're lying" or "you're stupid", and has a cooling effect on conversations similar to accusations of ignorance.

The phrase is also frequently used by orators when a debate foe or audient reaches a conclusion varying from the speaker's on a given subject. This appears mostly in debates or discussions of speculative, non-scientific issues, such as morality or policy. In such cases, the speaker is (perhaps unwittingly, and always ironically) guilty of both intellectual dishonesty and ignorance, because he or she has mistaken opinions for verifiable facts.

~Wikipedia

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» _Boanerges_ - intellectual dishonesty

In response to Obtuse posted by pink101:

Intellectual dishonesty is the advocacy of a position known to be false. Rhetoric is used to advance an agenda or to reinforce one's deeply held beliefs in the face of overwhelming contrary evidence. If a person is aware of the evidence and the conclusion it portends, yet holds a contradictory view, it is intellectual dishonesty. If the person is unaware of the evidence, their position is ignorance, even if in agreement with the scientific conclusion.

The terms intellectually dishonest and intellectual dishonesty are often used as rhetorical devices in a debate; the label invariably frames an opponent in a negative light. It is an obfuscatory way to say "you're lying" or "you're stupid", and has a cooling effect on conversations similar to accusations of ignorance.

The phrase is also frequently used by orators when a debate foe or audient reaches a conclusion varying from the speaker's on a given subject. This appears mostly in debates or discussions of speculative, non-scientific issues, such as morality or policy. In such cases, the speaker is (perhaps unwittingly, and always ironically) guilty of both intellectual dishonesty and ignorance, because he or she has mistaken opinions for verifiable facts.

~Wikipedia

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» pink101 - Quoting From Wikipedia

In response to intellectual dishonesty posted by _Boanerges_:
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Nice look in the mirror for you, Wendell.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectua...
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It's always proper to put the quotation marks around any quotations and to give the link so others can see the context.
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-- posted by pink101

» redback - Obtuse

In response to Obtuse posted by pink101:

"I've read the curve balls that have been thrown here as though we're playing a game.
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Have fun.

You totally misunderstand me. I'll check in from time to time but my presence here is either irrelevant or annoys. And to repeat...the games and fake outrage annoy me.

-- posted by redback

» pink101 - For Jeff

In response to My Purpose posted by redback:
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I'll give it one more go in an attempt to alleviate your sense that you've been used and abused by me.
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#1. My experience with the person who put me down has long sense completely inoculated me against ever being upset with his insults and falsifications of what people--who don't line up with him--might write. I couldn't care less about his put downs of me on a personal basis. I have too much respect for my own self to be concerned about the pettiness of his perversity. Accept that as a simple fact. And, let it be done. O.K.?
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#2. Sometimes I get what it is that you are saying and sometimes I don't. If it appears that you want some feedback and I don't understand you, I will usually ask for clarification. I don't think any of us should be responsible for understanding the hidden meanings in what another person might post. This is a new media and it demands clarity if it demands anything. No one of us is an expert at making their intentions well known in every case.
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#3. I came here with one thought in mind and it was the result of the so-called "put down" statement I linked. I did that as I didn't want any readers to have to "be in on something" in order to know the context involved. I tried to clarify any misunderstandings. The nature of his insult was more to the point against intellectuality than it was against me. The man is a putz who marginalizes himself as far as I'm concerned. My sole purpose was to flesh out the ideas involved in the word, intellecutality--what does it mean--who qualifies as an intellectual.
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#4. Instead, my interests were passed by and we entered into a game where curve balls were thown for me to hit.
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#5. It's too bad pettiness and perversity enters into any discussion. But, I suppose it makes the day for some people. Not me.
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Maybe this isn't the place where persons can pursue any ideas of depth.
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I take the word, obtuse, to mean lacking any understanding--bent off in some unrelated direction.
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It seemed like an insult to me.
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I'm truly sorry you're so upset.
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-- posted by pink101

» redback - For Jeff

In response to For Jeff posted by pink101:

Nope...I'm not dribbling in fear of being being used and abused or even needing any sense of it to be alleviated. And nor am I threatened by what you describe as pettiness and perversion entering the discussion. Nor games...all of which in a 2-way conversation apparently aren't of your doing.

I was unfair to Boanerges in dismissing one of his posts. I'm not angry...simply tired from recycling what I have already stated to you. Had I realised your interests were being "passed by" by my posts once the game of curve ball started...I would have stoppoed posting ages ago. BUT nobody told me I was playing that game let alone any game. Silly me thought I was being fair dinkum but what would I know.

One way for us to be clearer about 'intellectual' for the purposes of your use of it in this discussion was for YOU to give your understanding of your term 'non-intellectual'. So you played around with the word argument over discussion and never answered my question. I called that process obtuse and despite my reassurances over time, you believed I was insulting you.

Well, here we are in 2007, Pink. I'm not posting more and enjoying it less. I'm posting less and to the point, not at all here for a wee while...whatever that means.

I wish you all well.

-- posted by redback

» _Boanerges_ - For Jeff

In response to For Jeff posted by redback:

I was unfair to Boanerges in dismissing one of his posts

its okie.. Im not mad at ya .....
but.. I do agree.. I see no real point of this thread discussion, because intellectual can simply be looked up in a dictionary and the individual can roll that around their own brains...

I see no sense in such a conversation.. Or, that is to say, I find it senseless...

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» pink101 - Summation

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-- posted by pink101

» pink101 - Oh, Great One

In response to For Jeff posted by _Boanerges_:
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Wouldn't it be great if you were in charge of the world?
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No one would ever waste any time on anything senseless.
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-- posted by pink101