Protestantism

» Brian Tubbs - Paul's existence

Let's at least agree that Paul was a legitimate historical figure. There's some debate over whether all the writings traditionally attributed to him were in fact his, but there's no credible dispute (that I'm aware of) about whether Paul actually lived. Paul was an actual historical figure who played a huge role in the growth and development of Christianity. This much is certain.

» Brian Tubbs - Worth pointing out...

Migisi is cavalierly dismissing the Gospels in their entirety as sources on the life of Jesus. It needs to be pointed out that there are FOUR first-century documents composed by followers of Jesus that purport to chronicle at least the highlights of Jesus' public ministry. While it may be fair to question the more supernatural elements of the writings and to keep the bias of the authors in view, it is radical and irrational (yes, I'll use that word) to dismiss them completely.

Julius Caesar's account of the Gallic wars is of course biased, but historians don't discount it completely. They just take it with a grain of salt.

Likewise, even some of the most liberal NT scholars (like one of Phil's favorites - John Shelby Spong) don't completely sweep away the Gospels. They give them at least some credibility.

Now, obviously, I myself believe the Gospels to be fully credible - but I'm not asking Migisi (or anyone) in THIS thread to embrace that view. I'm arguing for a very left-of-center view, namely that the Gospels at least have SOME credibility - and can be seen as PROOF for some of the basic outlines of Jesus' public life.

» _Boanerges_ - Paul's existence

In response to Paul's existence posted by BrianTubbs:

as to Mig's link.. Its ironic that she would listen to a man rant about a man that he can only "assume" lived..... Basically, the article is a personal opinion, not based on fact.. but rather, based on the authors own admittance "his personal struggle"...

Alot could be said about the authors rhetoric, and unhistorical accounting.. but.. why bother.. its futile in its entirety....

sorry Mig.. but, I for one am going to have to dismiss your link as not only bogus, but simply a personal rant by some unknown who has demonstrated contempt for textual criticism

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» _Boanerges_ - Paul's existence

In response to Paul's existence posted by _Boanerges_:

Paul is born (his father is a Roman citizen) Grows up in Tarsus (family may have had ties to Judea, e.g. Paul's insistence that he is a "Hebrew" [2 Cor 11:22] and from the "tribe of Benjamin" [Phil 3:5]) Becomes a zealous member of the Pharisees.

Philippians 3:4-5: Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

I believe that if you research a little about the Tribe of Benjamin, one would find that the link provided (above from Mig) displays contempt for an historical account of what is written, known, and also verified by outside sources..

As I said above.. It is easy to dismiss the rants of authors who have "personal struggles"... This is not the way science operates, nor math, nor logic, nor theology.... nor anything else that I have not mentioned - aside from the lunatic bent on the fringe...

Acts 22:29: Then straightway they departed from him which should have examined him (Paul): and the chief captain also was afraid, after he knew that he was a Roman, and because he had bound him.

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» Migisi - NT Scholars

In response to NT Scholars posted by BrianTubbs:

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You're incorrect about New Testament scholars translating automatically into Christian scholars. Most seminaries in the United States do NOT teach an evangelical perspective.
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I'm incorrect? Who attends 'seminaries'? Jews? Moslems? Wiccans? Seminaries teach the Christian perspective to Christians, Bri.

-- posted by Migisi

» Brian Tubbs - NT Scholars

In response to NT Scholars posted by Migisi:

Seminaries teach the Christian perspective to Christians, Bri.

If only that were true

» _Boanerges_ - NT Scholars

In response to NT Scholars posted by BrianTubbs:
sorry Mig.. I will have to agree with Brian..

so - how is Mig doin these days?...

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» pink101 - Birds Of A Feather

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What does the Bible say about "Birds of a feather"?
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-- posted by pink101

» Migisi - NT Scholars

In response to NT Scholars posted by _Boanerges_:
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sorry Mig.. I will have to agree with Brian..
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I'd be shocked if you didn't, Bo. Gotta circle the wagons against the heathen. Tee hee.
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Mig is doing great. Your God sent a ton of rain after I finished planting 46 day lilies. As a bonus, I have a big crop of mushrooms growing out of my wood chips. Thank him for me, will ya? But he could've done better by the Robin (speaking of birds of a feather). Her nest fell apart in the deluge and her two babies fell to their death. This was her second try at motherhood. Poor birds. Your God could giveth more and taketh less, IMO.

-- posted by Migisi

» Migisi - Worth pointing out...

In response to Worth pointing out... posted by BrianTubbs:
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Migisi is cavalierly dismissing the Gospels in their entirety as sources on the life of Jesus.
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Hmm. I thought this thread was about Suetonius (and other nonChristian historians) and your article? I acknowledged that introducing Paul was off topic. If you'd like to expand the topic to include the Gospels and Epistles, Julius Caesar, and Spong, I'm okay with that.
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namely that the Gospels at least have SOME credibility - and can be seen as PROOF for some of the basic outlines of Jesus' public life.
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What degree of credibility and proof can there be ... when there's scholarly consensus that gospels and epistles weren't even written by their ascribed authors; when accounts were transmitted via word of mouth (ever play the parlor game 'Telephone'?); when details clearly contradict each other; when writers borrowed from other writers and were not themselves eyewitnesses; when biased men with agendas translated, transcribed, hand-copied, and edited documents, and selected and canonized only the documents which would further a specific religious doctrine (declaring all other documents and theology 'heresy').
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I can write a fiction today and insert historical (or current) names, places, and events. It would remain a work of fiction nonetheless. You know, like the Divinci Code.

-- posted by Migisi