Protestantism

» redback - family perceptions

In response to The Family Model posted by pink101:

I can link the white picket fence to conservatism if I have to but you have (for me) an unusual way of connecting dots of substance to arguable examples to dots of label. I have to let most of them pass me by.

Something is the cause, not someone?

If we keep implying or saying often enough and loudly enough, that 'conservatism', 'society' 'strict father model' etc has a separate harmful power of its own then the power (of this type) of advertising WILL ensure a self-serving prophecy fulfilled. This is that both these powers WILL keep the individual impotent and (they wish) blameless.

That's my line of resistance to your notion - not outright dismissal. If, as you say the majority of Americans agree with you - so be it. I just think that they're bigger than that.

I understand Brian's thoughts re one-liner definitions but what exactly in context is a "strict" father in contemporary USA?

Call me old fashioned but you'll have to advance your notions a bit for me.. At the moment, I see:
"Let's talk about say, 'pessimism'. So, what do you think about American politics?"

If I was asked about the politics firstly, 'pessimism' is only one of countless streams. Same with 'conservatism' 'liberalism' et al. ABC

-- posted by redback

» pink101 - family perceptions

In response to family perceptions posted by redback:

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So, tell me, Redback. What is it tht links all conservative thinkers together under that one banner if it isn't the strict father model of the family.
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It would be nice to have a paradigm to enhance our discussions about conservatives and liberals during these days when that's mostly what you hear.
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-- posted by pink101

» redback - family perceptions

In response to family perceptions posted by pink101:

"So, tell me, Redback. What is it tht links all conservative thinkers together under that one banner if it isn't the strict father model of the family."

Pink. You repeat YOUR notion as if none of my posts explain anything.

As you stated in another topic in response to me: "Have fun."

This is NOT the discussion I need right now.

-- posted by redback

» pink101 - family perceptions

In response to family perceptions posted by redback:

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Sorry about that.
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-- posted by pink101

» pink101 - Obedience

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The basic idea of conservatism speaks to obedience.
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-- posted by pink101

» Migisi - Obedience

In response to Obedience posted by pink101:
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I understand your theory about the strong father model and conservatism, and the liberal feminine model. That would've applied to my traditional family. So, shouldn't I have been (and be) a conservative - given the strong father role?
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I don't think these traditional role models can apply today - given the 52% divorce rate and single-mom parenting. If the theory is correct, it would imply that kids raised in single-mom households are liberals. I'm not seeing that. Just the opposite.
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In many married households I'm familiar with, the stronger role model is Mom. And she might be the conservative.
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The English proverb holds true ... "the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world".

-- posted by Migisi

» pink101 - Not My Theory

In response to Obedience posted by Migisi:
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"I understand your theory..."
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It's not my theory. But, I think it's pretty good. It helps put understanding on why people choose one way or another.
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"...shouldn't I have been (and be) a conservative - given the strong father role?"
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Why would that follow?
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The point of conservatism is not that everyone is a conservative; but, that it is a force of contention as our society moves into the future and it seeks obedience to an established authority.
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The point of liberalism is not that it is a competitive force; but, that it is a force that seeks solutions and improvement to current conditions through the development and implementation of progressive ideas.
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These two methods have come into conflict with each other in our society so much so that they are dividing us on the basis of which side we find ourselves.
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I think it behooves us to understand what makes a person a conservative or a liberal.
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Why, do you think that religious conservatives line up so easily with political conservatives? Why is it that conservatives of almost any situation are usually conservatives in every case? If a person is conservative in their religious life, they generally are conservative in the political considerations--why is that so?
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George Lakeoff, in his book, Whose Freedom, http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksea...
goes into great detail on the question of the characteristic that links all conservatives together and he compares that to the characteristic that links all liberals together.
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What is there about you that lines you up with either conservatives or liberals and don't you exhibit characteristics of both?
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AND, he shows how that has an effect on what motivates either side of the divide.
For example, conservatives tend to see history as being influenced by individuals as a single force; whereas liberals tend to see the forces of history as being systemic.
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I can guess on which side you find yourself in that question about history as I can with all others who post here.
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-- posted by pink101

» pink101 - How Shameful

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I just watched part of the Gonzales questioning by the Senate Committee.
This administration has lied to us and to the world. We are so shamed. So terribly shamed. It's time to be very serious about what has been going on. All excuses need to be ended.
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The truth must be known so we can be set free from this shame laden behavior that has brought the mighty America so low.

-- posted by pink101

» Migisi - How Shameful

In response to How Shameful posted by pink101:
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The truth must be known so we can be set free from this shame laden behavior that has brought the mighty America so low.
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How can that be accomplished - aside from booting all the bums out in the next election? Only to be replaced with more bums thereafter. I'm totally disgusted with ALL politicians - of every stripe.

-- posted by Migisi

» pink101 - How Vain Glorious

In response to How Shameful posted by Migisi:
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When I was a boy, Rudyard Kipling was in style. He wrote some pretty good stuff. Here is the first verse of his East is East and West is West:
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"Oh, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
When two strong men stand face to face,
tho' they come from the ends of the earth!"
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By the way, the present war was raging then and had been for centuries.
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Bull roar and clamor that brings death and suffering to us.
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How vain glorious it is.

-- posted by pink101