Protestantism

» Brother_Jones - the bible

In response to the bible posted by Migisi:

Evidence is proof. Proof is proof. If there is any, provide it.

No, not strictly speaking. Evidence is a form of proof. You can speak of bad evidence but never of bad proof.
I'm always open for discussion. Proceed with your presentation of proof and truth.

Okay. Jesus said, 'I am the way, the truth, and the life.' Jn 14:6. Of course you don't believe that or that He really said it, and you are unsure if anybody like Jesus ever lived. But you can't deny that we do have this little scrap of evidence that somebody said it or at the very least somebody wrote it. But there is evidence here of some sort.

You've 'never seen', because you've ~choosen~ not to. And that's okay with me. But I ~have~ seen good reason to examine the belief system I was raised in, and I can tell you first-hand that it's NOT 'so easy' for someone to detach themselves.

Well, it sounds to me like there are plenty of good reasons that you might have had to detach from your roots, especially if it was filled with hypocricy and lack of scholarship.

So, accepting Christianity is an emotional response to fear, depression, and anxiety -- rather than an intellectual rational decision. Okay. I get that. An emotional crutch.

This is what I really don't ever get exactly when I post with folks like you. It seems like you want to keep all or most of emotion out of the religious experience. But certainly you wouldn't do that with a relationship with a family member. Why would you want to delete emotion from having an experience with God?

I do agree with you about getting your mind in gear and seeking to understand God.
Yes, some. Have YOU looked at any of them yourself with open eyes? Without your Christian blinders on?

I try. I think it is pretty silly to suggest putting religious documents into hotel rooms if you haven't read or studied them.

Isn't that what you suggested?Depends on how good a baseball player Jesus was. What was Jesus' batting average?

Pretty good batting average I must admit. I know this sounds kinda high horse, but I note that we are talking always about my God and never yours, and I supspect from your post that you don't anymore. If you have a god, he/she/it ain't battin too high an average these days on the internet. Gone into hiding, I guess.
Jesus was a ~MAN~ with a 'few good ideas' (if he really existed at all, that is). He wasn't and isn't a god, or ~the~ GOD. And he certainly wasn't and isn't the ONLY ~man~ with good ideas.

Are you sure about what you just said? I thought you were undecided about just about everything. How could you be sure Jesus isn't God. You avoid your own philosophical underpinnings of doubt from time to time just to take a swat at Jesus. lol.

You're still new at grandparenting, Jones. Trust me, you'd be wise to leave religious indoctrination to their parents. When the grandkids are older and able to discuss their views, I'll share mine with them - if they ask ... as I have with their parents ... allowing each the freedom to believe what they want.

Lord have mercy. Mercy, mercy, mercy. That is some of the lousiest advice I have seen. What if the parents are like you and they say that Jesus isn't God? And they aren't doubtful like you are most of the time. What if they say with assurance that Jesus isn't God. Should a Grandparent just roll over and burp...like you suggest? Mercy, mercy, mercy.

i am just an oldtimer for the Lord.

-- posted by Brother_Jones

» pink101 - The Trinity

In response to the bible posted by Brother_Jones:
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"Brother" Jones claims, There are two opinions here that can't be backed up with any real evidence or examples.
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Heh heh heh.
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So you say, so you say.
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"Our Father..."
"Father God..."
"Sons and daughters"
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It is all about the father/child relationship--cut it anyway you like.
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Who is the father of all liars?
What relationship does Jesus share with God?
Children of Light.
Children of God.
Chastisement.
Etc, etc, etc.
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In the name of the ******, the ***, and the Holy Ghost. Fill in the blanks and you have the Trinity.
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Then come back and talk to me about opinions.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brother_Jones - The Trinity

In response to The Trinity posted by pink101:

"Brother" Jones claims, There are two opinions here that can't be backed up with any real evidence or examples.

Well, I may have over stretched the argument by saying can't. You give an example of the Trinity that is often alluded to by Christians. But that doesn't really tie into in exactly with your first thought about a strict Father God or bulldog minded conservative Christians.

It is difficult for conservatives or liberals to speak of the bible in a general way. But maybe we can persevere. I am going to bring a more liberal approach to my postings in the future to allay any fear of an obvious bias.

i am just an oldtimer for the Lord.

-- posted by Brother_Jones

» pink101 - Are You A Strict Christian?

In response to The Trinity posted by Brother_Jones:
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Heh heh heh
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Let's get a good handle on the meaning of the word, strict, okay?
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Here's the meanings from One Look Dictionary:
Quick definitions (strict)
# adjective: not indulgent (Example: "Strict parents")
# adjective: incapable of compromise or flexibility
# adjective: (of rules) stringently enforced
# adjective: severe and unremitting in making demands (Example: "Strict standards")
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Is there more than one way to avoid Father God's punishment for sin? Would you say that the Father is uncompromising regarding the sacrifice of [His] Son?
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Or does [He] allow the Son's mother to intercede in behalf of the wayward children?
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It is okay to concede that a point has been made here.
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Are you a strict Christian?
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-- posted by pink101

» Brother_Jones - Strict

In response to Strict posted by pink101:

Is there more than one way to avoid Father God's punishment for sin? Would you say that the Father is uncompromising regarding the sacrifice of [His] Son?

Well, there is the example for us of the thief on the Cross. And also you have been able to dodge the lightning bolts all these years.

Or does [He] allow the Son's mother to intercede in behalf of the wayward children?

No, I don't believe He does. Mary was just a sinner saved by grace. No more and no less, per the bible.

i am just an oldtimer for the Lord.

-- posted by Brother_Jones

» Migisi - the bible

In response to the bible posted by Brother_Jones:
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No, not strictly speaking. Evidence is a form of proof. You can speak of bad evidence but never of bad proof.
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So, present your proof, Jones. So far, you've only produced 'bad evidence'.
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at the very least somebody wrote it. But there is evidence here of some sort.
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Just because somebody wrote something doesn't mean its the truth. Men wrote about Osiris, Horus, Mars, Zeus, etc. Why is Jesus any more real than Thor?
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Well, it sounds to me like there are plenty of good reasons that you might have had to detach from your roots, especially if it was filled with hypocricy and lack of scholarship.
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Perhaps you need to examine your own faith using the same criteria. Your denomination is rooted in Catholicism, ya know.
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It seems like you want to keep all or most of emotion out of the religious experience. But certainly you wouldn't do that with a relationship with a family member. Why would you want to delete emotion from having an experience with God?
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You seem to be advocating the 'warm and fuzzy' approach to faith. Does emotion sustain your belief? Regarding family members... a relationship is a two-way street. It takes two REAL people to have one. You're real (I think), but what about your invisible supernatural friend and superpower? Is he real? Are you sure? How do you know?
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Clifford Geertz defined religion as a cultural system:
"A religion is a system of symbols which acts to establish powerful, pervasive, and long-lasting moods and motivations in men by formulating conceptions of a general order of existence and clothing these conceptions with such an aura of factuality that the moods and motivations seem uniquely realistic."
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I try. I think it is pretty silly to suggest putting religious documents into hotel rooms if you haven't read or studied them. Isn't that what you suggested?
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How many Christians have never read the Bible, Jones? Yet, Bibles are in the hotel nightstands. I wonder if they'd be more apt to read the 'Sacred Texts from the East' just because it's different. It would be an interesting experiment.
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Are you sure about what you just said? I thought you were undecided about just about everything.
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How did you conclude I was undecided on everything?
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How could you be sure Jesus isn't God.
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How can you be sure Jesus ever existed, or that Jesus IS God?
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You avoid your own philosophical underpinnings of doubt from time to time just to take a swat at Jesus. lol.
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You haven't been paying attention.
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What if the parents are like you and they say that Jesus isn't God?
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What if they do?
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And they aren't doubtful like you are most of the time. What if they say with assurance that Jesus isn't God.
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Again, what if they do?
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Should a Grandparent just roll over and burp...like you suggest?
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I suggested that grandparents keep a low profile on the matter, but you can do what you like. Maybe you like family strife and drama.

-- posted by Migisi

» Brother_Jones - the bible

In response to the bible posted by Migisi:

You seem to be advocating the 'warm and fuzzy' approach to faith. Does emotion sustain your belief? Regarding family members... a relationship is a two-way street. It takes two REAL people to have one. You're real (I think), but what about your invisible supernatural friend and superpower? Is he real? Are you sure? How do you know?

I keep asking you for any sign of the god you have sometimes talked about but you have no response anymore to your former posts about your some sort of god from only months ago, so I assume your sarcastic, cynical, shrewd belief system has squeezed out any 'feelings' for a personal god. So have you thought about taking up bowling? Maybe that will replace whatever religion might have been in your former life.

Clifford Geertz defined religion as a cultural system:
"A religion is a system of symbols which acts to establish powerful, pervasive, and long-lasting moods and motivations in men by formulating conceptions of a general order of existence and clothing these conceptions with such an aura of factuality that the moods and motivations seem uniquely realistic."

Yea, go with that. Try to build a life on that. lol. More sarcasm, more cynicism please...it's pretty funny if it wasn't so dreadfully sad and hopeless.

i am just an oldtimer for the Lord.

-- posted by Brother_Jones

» pink101 - Brother Jones

In response to the bible posted by Brother_Jones:
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Migisi had posted that Clifford Geertz wrote, "Clifford Geertz defined religion as a cultural system:
"A religion is a system of symbols which acts to establish powerful, pervasive, and long-lasting moods and motivations in men by formulating conceptions of a general order of existence and clothing these conceptions with such an aura of factuality that the moods and motivations seem uniquely realistic.""
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As I recall, Geertz was a sociologist who specialized in anthropology.
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It appears, from Brother Jones' reply that he thinks Geertz was making some kind of a "dreadfully sad and hopeless" comment about human culture.
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What did you see wrong with the definition, Brother Jones? It certainly explains your expressions of faith.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brother_Jones - Brother Jones

In response to Brother Jones posted by pink101:

What did you see wrong with the definition, Brother Jones? It certainly explains your expressions of faith.

I guess this site is just all about spinning what others say and you just spun mine. I guess I am a little guilty of the spin. I didn't really want to get into a long dialogue about Religion in general, so maybe we can get back to the bible.

i am just an oldtimer for the Lord.

-- posted by Brother_Jones

» pink101 - Brother Jones

In response to Brother Jones posted by Brother_Jones:

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Best way to do that is to skip the put downs.
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Migisi usually (not always) is pretty good for giving worthwhile comments.
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There are some who don't.
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-- posted by pink101