Protestantism

» pink101 - Chilling

In response to Check It Out posted by Migisi:
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Yupper--a few times.
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The E.G. Robinson death scene was chilling.
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-- posted by pink101

» pink101 - Genesis 9: 7-17

7 As for you, be fruitful and increase in number; multiply on the earth and increase upon it."
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8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 "I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you-the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you-every living creature on earth. 11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be cut off by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth."
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12 And God said, "This is the sign of the covenant I am making between me and you and every living creature with you, a covenant for all generations to come: 13 I have set my rainbow in the clouds, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and the earth. 14 Whenever I bring clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds, 15 I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life. 16 Whenever the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures of every kind on the earth."
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17 So God said to Noah, "This is the sign of the covenant I have established between me and all life on the earth."
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Imagine those primitives that had no knowledge of prisims as they looked up and saw a rainbow after a rain.
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I remember when I was a child and my first rainbow was pointed out to me along with an introduction to the story of Noah. It is easy to see the primitive's connection with superstition.
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-- posted by pink101

» pink101 - Peace Child

In response to Check It Out posted by Migisi:
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I may have mentioned this book some time in the past.
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It is an excellent account of cultural norms in a primitive tribe. Just read the reviews and, if you want to know more, buy the book. For one cent plus S&H, it is a very low cost education. on non-Christian people in the primitive wilds. We should recognize Christianity for its benefits to humanity.
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http://www.amazon.com/Peace-Child-Don-Ri...
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-- posted by pink101

» Migisi - Genesis 9: 7-17

In response to Genesis 9: 7-17 posted by pink101:
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"Never again will all life be cut off by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth."
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The caveat: ALL LIFE won't be destroyed by a flood, and another flood won't destroy the [entire] earth. We've certainly seen portions of the earth and numerous lives taken by flooding ever since -- Katrina, the southeast Asia tsunami, Washington State this week, etc. Similarly, I believe the Bible flood was also a 'local' event, not a global one.
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Imagine those primitives that had no knowledge of prisims as they looked up and saw a rainbow after a rain.
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It's too bad they didn't have my 5-year-old grand daughter's preschool teacher. She taught the kids about color spectrums and prisms using a diamond ring and a glass crystal. They went outside on a sunny day with spray/mist bottles and made their own rainbows. They also blew soap bubbles and saw swirling rainbows in them. I've shown her rainbows when there is no rain... in the lawn sprinkler, sun dogs (solar halos), in ice crystal clouds and airplane trails. No reliance on superstitions... just simple refraction science.
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In this book of beginnings, this explains the origin of the rainbow.

-- posted by Migisi

» Migisi - Gen 9:18-19 Noah's sons

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18 The sons of Noah who came out of the ark were Shem, Ham and Japheth. (Ham was the father of Canaan.) 19 These were the three sons of Noah, and from them came the people who were scattered over the earth.
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SHEM - The rabbis contend that he was Noah's youngest son, but was always mentioned first because of his importance (abilities, wisdom). He was said to be ~born~ circumcised (?); he was the ancestor of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; he was priest and prophet; and he was one of the eight righteous who are mentioned twice in Gen 11. Shem's descendants were the 'Semites'. According to Jewish literature, Shem offered the sacrifices on the altar, not Noah. Noah had been crippled by the lion in the ark and was therefore unfit for the priestly office. Noah gave Shem his priestly garments which he had inherited from Adam. Noah blessed Shem because Shem had covered his nakedness. Rabbis also think Noah declared that the Shekinah (presence of God) could only dwell in the tents of Shem.
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JAPHETH - Japheth, Noah's oldest son, helped Shem cover Noah's nakedness, for which he was rewarded. Noah blessed him - his descendants would extend over the surface of the earth. Descendants of Japheth were the Greeks.
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HAM - Noah's second son, mentioned second. However, in Gen 9:24, he's noted as Noah's youngest son. In Jewish literature, Ham is represented as one of the three who had intercourse with their wives in the Ark. He was punished for that - Ham's descendants, the Ethiopians, would become black-skinned. Ham is alleged to have 'emasculated' or 'mutilated' Noah while he laid passed out in his tent. Noah could not bear a 4th son (or any other children) because of the mutilation. In revenge, Noah cursed Ham's 4th son, Canaan (and all his descendants). They would be slaves to his brothers Shem and Japheth (the Curse of Ham).
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In this book of beginnings, the legend of Ham's Curse (which we'll read next), and Chapter 10, explain the origin of ethnic groups, and introduces the origin of the slavery of blacks.
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-- posted by Migisi

» pink101 - Gen 9:18-19 Noah's sons

In response to Gen 9:18-19 Noah's sons posted by Migisi:

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As you know, I was raised with my family being actively involved in a seminal Fundamentalist Baptist church in Saginaw, Michigan. No need to go into all that rigamarole again.
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Some of the members of our church had come up from Toledo, Ohio, where they had gone from Tennessee earlier in the search for work in the industrialized Mid-West. So, we had our share of Christianized prejudice and it was raw, believe me. There was no hesitancy in claiming that Negroes were the descendants of Ham and or that the blood line originated with Cain as the "mark" God had put on him and his descendants for protection. Some of the "Tennessean" influence is still around--one is a in-lawed relative of mine. While it has cooled way down to the point that it no longer is aggressive; there still is some of the vintage left.
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But, I don't know that such a prejudice can be held against them for the fact of racism was not limited to religionism. Even so, religionism did make racism a biblical fact for some folks.
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It's hard to shake such ingrained sensitivities no matter how foolish they might be.
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-- posted by pink101

» Migisi - Gen 9:18-19 Noah's sons

In response to Gen 9:18-19 Noah's sons posted by pink101:
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A pretty good article here:
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Racism and religion: partners in crime?
http://salt.claretianpubs.org/issues/rac...
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(Quotes)
"Eleven o'clock on Sunday morning . . . is the most segregated hour in Christian America."
- Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.
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"One wastes time and money in ministering to blacks. . . . What reason can there be that you are so solicitous for the Negro?"
- a priest, cited in "The Miserable Condition of Black Catholics in America", 1903.
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"RACISTS, HOWEVER, HAVE USED PASSAGES of the Bible for divine sanctioning of slavery.
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"Noah's curse on his grandson Canaan (Gen. 9:20-27) served as the prime proof text for their twisted arguments...
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"Modern commentators believe that the story was told to justify the enslavement of the Canaanites because of certain indecent sexual practices in the Canaanite religion...
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"FOR CENTURIES, EUROPEANS, AMERICANS, AND WHITE South Africans have used this text to justify the enslavement of Africans, whom they considered the children of Canaan.
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"Some racists also quote the Song of Songs (1:5-6): "I am black but beautiful, O daughters of Jerusalem . . . Do not gaze at me because I am dark, because the sun has gazed on me. My mother's sons were angry with me; they made me keeper of the vineyards."
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"The verse has been used as biblical justification that dark-skinned people are to occupy a lower rung on the racial ladder and are ordained to serve others. " (end)
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We should move on and examine the Curse in the next verses.

-- posted by Migisi

» Migisi - Gen 9:20-27 Noah's fall and curse

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20 Noah, a man of the soil, proceeded to plant a vineyard. 21 When he drank some of its wine, he became drunk and lay uncovered inside his tent.
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Noah, the first grape grower and wine maker.
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Why was Noah naked in the first place? One theory is that Noah's drunkeness and nakedness was a prelude to sexual relations - ~presumably~ with his wife. It's suggested that, while Noah was passed out, Ham forced himself upon Noah's wife. Incest isn't an improbable notion. In the doublet story of Lot, Lot also got drunk (twice) after being saved from the destruction of Sodom/Gomorrah. While Lot was passed out, his two daughters had relations with him.
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22 Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father's nakedness and told his two brothers outside. 23 But Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it across their shoulders; then they walked in backward and covered their father's nakedness. Their faces were turned the other way so that they would not see their father's nakedness.
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What did Shem and Japheth really see? Did they see and cover Noah's nakedness, or did they see and cover their ravaged mother?? Their "father's nakedness" can be interpretted to mean Noah's wife. Read Leviticus 18:8 - "The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness."
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24 When Noah awoke from his wine and found out what his youngest son had done to him,
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Note this verse says 'done to him'. It doesn't say that Ham laughed at, made fun of, or ridiculed Noah. Ham's offence wasn't voyeurism. That's the interpretation most Christians are given. No, the verse says Ham DID something TO Noah. If Ham had sexually assaulted Noah's wife, Noah would've considered that an assault on himself. Or...
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As mentioned previously, Jewish lit has Ham 'emasculating' Noah in some way. Emasculate can mean castrate (to deprive of the testes). The rabbis say that Ham had mutilated Noah, which prevented Noah from fathering another child (a 4th son). This mutilation would've been something the brothers could've observed, but couldn't bear to look at. And it certainly would explain Noah's rage, and his curse on Ham's 4th son, Canaan, and all his descendants.
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There's also another interpretation of 'emasculate'... when a man assumes the female role in the act of sodomy. Some have suggested that Ham sodomized Noah while he was passed out.
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We'll never know what happened in Noah's tent. But we know he was MAD at Ham, and cursed his entire line!...
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25 he said,
"Cursed be Canaan!
The lowest of slaves
will he be to his brothers."
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26 He also said,
"Blessed be the LORD, the God of Shem!
May Canaan be the slave of Shem.
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27 May God extend the territory of Japheth;
may Japheth live in the tents of Shem,
and may Canaan be his slave."

-- posted by Migisi

» Migisi - Chapter 10

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Chapter 9 finishes with Noah living 350 years more after the flood, total lifespan 950.
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Chapter 10 is a partial list of Noah's sons, their descendants, and the territories they inhabited. In this book of beginnings, it's the explanation for the emergence of different ethnic groups and ***languages.
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Japhethites
Japheth's sons: Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshech and Tiras.
Japheth's grandsons: Ashkenaz, Riphath and Togarmah, Elishah, Tarshish, the Kittim and the Rodanim.
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Notables: Elishah, Tarshish, the Kittim and the Rodanim are described as 'maritime peoples' ***"each with its own language" (vs 4).
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Hamites
Ham's sons: Cush, Mizraim [Egypt], Put and Canaan.
Ham's grandsons: Seba, Havilah, Sabtah, Raamah, Sabteca, and Nimrod.
Ham's great grandsons: Sheba and Dedan.
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Notables: Nimrod - the mighty hunter/warrior 'before the Lord'; "The first centers of his kingdom were Babylon" (vs 10); Mizraim - the Philistines came from his line; Canaan - the Hittites came from his line - Canaan territory included Sodom and Gomorrah; ***"These are the sons of Ham by their clans and languages" (vs 20)
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Semites (Shem's line)
Shem's sons: Elam, Asshur, Arphaxad, Lud and Aram.
Shem's grandsons: Uz, Hul, Gether, Meshech, Shelah
Great grandson: Eber
2X great grandsons: Peleg, Joktan
3X Great : Almodad, Sheleph, Hazarmaveth, Jerah, Hadoram, Uzal, Diklah, Obal, Abimael, Sheba, Ophir, Havilah and Jobab.
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Notables: Shem's geneology focuses on the descendants of Eber; ***"These are the sons of Shem by their clans and languages" (vs 31)
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*** Remember these references to 'languages' for Chapter 11 discussion.

-- posted by Migisi

» Migisi - Nimrod

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Here's a great piece on the legends of Nimrod in Rabbinical literature:
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Nimrod
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.j...
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Teasers:
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"Nimrod is the prototype of a rebellious people, his name being interpreted as "he who made all the people rebellious against God" (cites sources]. He is identified with Cush and with Amraphel, the name of the latter being interpreted as "he whose words are dark" (cites sources). As he was the first hunter he was consequently the first who introduced the eating of meat by man. He was also the first to make war on other peoples (cites sources).
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"Nimrod was not wicked in his outh. On the contrary, when a young man he used to sacrifice to Yhwh the animals which he caught while hunting (cites sources). His great success in hunting (cites sources) was due to the fact that he wore the coats of skin which God made for Adam and Eve (cites sources). These coats were handed down from father to son, and thus came into the possession of Noah, who took them with him into the ark, whence they were stolen by Ham. The latter gave them to his son Cush, who in turn gave them to Nimrod, and when the animals saw the latter clad in them, they crouched before him so that he had no difficulty in catching them. The people, however, thought that these feats were due to his extraordinary strength, so that they made him their king (cites sources).
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"Nimrod is generally considered to have been the one who suggested building the Tower of Babel and who directed its construction. God said: "I made Nimrod great; but he built a tower in order that he might rebel against Me" (cites sources)..."

-- posted by Migisi