Protestantism

» pink101 - Slow Pitch

In response to Slow Pitch posted by _Boanerges_:
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Yup, well, we can think of integrity, equity, justice, straightness and upright, just, straight, innocent, true, sincere as compared to the individual having a right to any of those aspects of life and thought. And, when we see a person who has rights to partake of and or to express any of those things, we call that person Righteous. Such a person is endowed with rights to be in possession of all of those things.
You popped one up to me and I caught it.
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-- posted by pink101

» redback - post 1126 - part 1

In response to Slow Pitch posted by pink101:

""...Jeff! I'd be happy to read your take on the higher message here...Thankee Kindlee."

I make no apologies for being frustrated with you over an issue we've heatedly discussed before. You must recall how I read such comments. Anyway, here's a rejig of my post (2-parts) to see if it makes better sense to you of my take on The Flood story. And your take, in response may be a fair trade. Thankee kindlee!

Genesis 8:13-22 (paraphrased):

8:13: At precisely 3:30PM AEDST, in the 601st year, 1st month, 1st day (New Year's Day?), far far more water than the entire world uses to flushes its faeces down the toilet over its lifetime, simply disappeared in one day. Dry land for New Years Day.

8:14 And after NYD, it was also dry on 7 and 20 February (so was probably wet again at 6:18am on Valentines Day?)

8:15-22 After disembarkation, the BBQ etc, the Lord promised only to Himself ie i"in his heart" He'd never apply that very specific Flood form of capital punishment destruction again..."while the Earth remaineth..." in its present harvest capacity, climate etc.

Get a feel for my questions so far?

-- posted by redback

» redback - post 1126 - part 2

In response to Slow Pitch posted by pink101:

Comment:
I have no idea whether such a man as Noah existed, what facts exist to add weight incl determinants to this Flood story. And FAR more importantly if all true then what possible context AND of what higher Biblical message IF ANY then, now and for all time.

Certainly I see that the New Year's Eve wishmaking, false promises (broken etc resolutions) vain hopes for a "renewal" aka 'better luck madly rubbing the rabbit's foot'...have ancient references in Genesis.

PONDER: A human using whatever WMD at his ancient disposal killed all the population...is a war criminal? There is righteously justified mass killing? Absolute power ONLY absolutely corrupts humans, paraphrasing Lord Acton. So tis pointless to judge...the Bible. None of my posts attempt judge God.

PONDER: Did God care more about the MANY saved animals and their animal behaviour than all humans and their animal behaviour? Is woman intended by the Bible to be a secondary or tertiary being? (Does it example God will play post-Flood favourites such as the Chosen race however that is defined in 2007?)

Are we really supposed to look to othe parts of the Bible for context eg:

"So the Lord changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people," (Exodus 32:14, NASB)"

to understand God NEVER intended to convey the impression that He changes his mind. OR He had in mind before the Earth was created, that man would drown. Was the intended Bible message one that we should not take God for granted as he will "shake us all up" as soon as a few of us stray?

My take here is only a raft of questions on what the Bible may means re the Flood. But probably the lines between fact and fiction, between Bible lessons and history are lost to antiquity...on what the Great Flood story is all about.

No-one's telling me here about the higher Flood message. I can take nothing value-added away from it, that isn't covered as carelessly or better in other parts of the Bible. It needs a far broader-based discussion. And any impact on politics and the history of the development of Christianity is a different topic.

-- posted by redback

» pink101 - post 1126 - part 2

In response to post 1126 - part 2 posted by redback:
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Sounds to me like you're being cynical about the Bible and see it as a collection of stories that were tried and true over the centuries. And, that you take a lot of exception to it in different ways.
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How were the different books of the Bible originally brought into a relationship with each other? What relationship did they have with each other before the Nicene Conference turned them into the Revealed Word of God--the Septuagint? Had they been completely separate books written on scrolls not associated with each other? Or were they always seen in the sequences we see them in to day?
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Someone has to know the answers to those questions.
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-- posted by pink101

» redback - post 1126 - part 2

In response to post 1126 - part 2 posted by pink101:

I can't incorporate all in this response. Again, my posts in this topic only attempted to drill into what Christians have identified as a very important story...the Great Flood...and I'm really not trying to avoid unrelated subjects such as the Nicene Conference. I question in my usual style. That style can exaggerate a Bible verse or come at it from an unexpected angle perhaps, to highlight the question.

Maybe like ridicule to some, or irreverent, rude or arcane to others...but is not about me "taking exception" in ANY known sense of that term. I really don't understand your points in response to my 3 posts now. There are many versions of the Bible and apparently many versions of an identifiable Christian. The Bible has history, scripture, parable etc etc and may be leather bound or in papyrus, can't it? I can't and won't and never have, taken exception to Christians or their Bible or their faith.

Your questions re this thing called the Nicene Conference etc leave me stumped for relevance.

I think you mentioned something along the lines that this part of the Bible was all gobbledegook to you or words to that effect. Not being a biblicist, literalist nor liberalist, I just haven't got to that conclusion yet. But I regret my 2nd attempt didn't help you have a go at responding to topic.

-- posted by redback

» Brother_Jones - Faith

In response to Bo's comment posted by Migisi:

Migisi writes:

Noah didn't believe God would follow through with his threat after God revealed it directly to him? Would Noah have spent 100 years building an ark (Noah was 500 years old when first mentioned - 600 years when he entered the ark)? Would he have gone to the expense and effort if he didn't believe it? And suffer constant ridicule, jokes, and his own kin calling him crazy? Indeed, if he did all that but didn't believe it would happen, he would've been crazy.

Most people who have what we call faith are considered somewhat touched in the head, even by their own kind. I don't doubt that Moses fought with God. And he probably spent a lot of time before and after the boat trying to decide whether to love Him or leave Him. Life isn't very fair. Awful things happen. We don't ride off into the sunset with the prettiest girl or god. This God isn't going to be an easy read. Those who profess faith in Him are going to be feeling a bit differently than you would feel about a loveable old uncle in a rocking chair.

the oldtimer

-- posted by Brother_Jones

» Migisi - Faith

In response to Faith posted by Brother_Jones:
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Hi Jones. How'd your flip painting go? I've been offline for a while. Puter trouble.
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Most people who have what we call faith are considered somewhat touched in the head, even by their own kind.
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Some more than others. (wink)
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I don't doubt that Moses fought with God.
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This legend's about Noah. Ol' Noah didn't fight with God.
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And he probably spent a lot of time before and after the boat trying to decide whether to love Him or leave Him.
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How did Moses sneak onto the ark? I don't get the idea from what's written that Noah vacillated. He did what he was told without question or hesitation.
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Life isn't very fair. Awful things happen.
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"The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these." Isaiah 45:7
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We don't ride off into the sunset with the prettiest girl or god.
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You mean... no happy ending in real life, where the handsome cowboy saves the gal, or the town, or the world?
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This God isn't going to be an easy read.
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That's the truth.
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Those who profess faith in Him are going to be feeling a bit differently than you would feel about a loveable old uncle in a rocking chair.
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I would assume that those who 'profess faith in Him' have read the OT - and already know he's nothing like their rocking loveable ol' uncle??

-- posted by Migisi

» Migisi - post 1126 - part 2

In response to post 1126 - part 2 posted by redback:
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No-one's telling me here about the higher Flood message.
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IMO, the moral of the legend is: Obey God or be severely punished - or die. I don't know how 'high' that message is, but it's the dominant message hereafter throughout the Bible.
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Maybe someone else has a 'higher' message to offer.

-- posted by Migisi

» pink101 - post 1126 - part 2

In response to post 1126 - part 2 posted by Migisi:

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When I was selling advertising space, we used a particular close with prospects that had a good track record. We called by its name, The Impending Event.
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The message it sent to the prospect was that the opportunity to have space in such and such an issue will close at some time specific. The closer to the close, the more apt some prospects would buy.
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I think the same thing is a message in the Noah and The Ark story. Better get on board or you might miss the deadline date. Once that date has come, your goose is cooked.
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For example, these ARE the end times.
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-- posted by pink101

» Migisi - post 1126 - part 2

In response to post 1126 - part 2 posted by pink101:
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For example, these ARE the end times.
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Again? Well, I guess that's personally true for those of us who are long-in-the-tooth.
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I get a kick out of the doomsday articles at this site:
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It's the End of the World as We Know it... Again
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/9...
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Check out 'Exorcising Poor Last Judgement', and some of the others.
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Once that date has come, your goose is cooked.
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Funny how often that date's come and gone, and still my goose is raw. Hee hee.

-- posted by Migisi