Protestantism

» pink101 - The Fun Of It--April 7, 1999

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Let's see, that was more than 8 years ago. Hard to believe.
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http://www.suite101.com/discussion.cfm/p...
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Anyone remember Richard Maffeo who was a managing editor of a protestantism site here at Suite101.com?
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http://www.suite101.com/discussions.cfm/...
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Brian is a breath of fresh air.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - There you go again.

In response to Dismissing The article posted by Migisi:

As Ronald Reagan said to Jimmy Carter in that famous 1980 televised debate: "There you go again."

You keep pushing my position to extremes. Look at what's happening. I said initially that portions of the New Testament record have been affirmed by secular sources. You then recast my statement as a claim that there were secular sources covering the "life and miracles" of Jesus Christ. I clarified by simply REPEATING my previous statement - that only PORTIONS of the NT record have been affirmed by secular sources. You then respond that it's a shame that Jesus didn't even get a "dot and tittle by secular historians." Migisi, he DID get a "dot and tittle by secular historians." And that "dot and tittle" affirms PORTIONS of the NT record. That's precisely my point which you are jerking all around - trying to push me to extremes.

Did you read the article I wrote called "Proving Jesus"? In it, I discuss some of the secular or at least non-Christian sources that affirm PORTIONS of Jesus' life and PORTIONS of the New Testament record.

(I have to qualify "secular" because your choices were pretty much Jewish, Christian, or pagan/polytheist. There weren't any full-fledged atheists in the ancient world that I know of. So, if you're holding out for completely secular as in completely atheist/agnostic sources, then that will be a ridiculous standard on your part - but then again, I wouldn't be surprised if you try to impose that).

http://protestantism.suite101.com/articl...

And then here's an article written by a NON-Christian who says that the New Testament is full of error. And yet he too points to historical evidence which confirms at least PART of the NT record concerning Jesus...

http://sonic.net/sentinel/naij3.html

Understand that, RIGHT NOW, I'm not arguing a conservative, evangelical position. I'm simply arguing that PORTIONS of the NT are credible and that there is non-biblical evidence to support that contention. That's it. A very moderate argument that even many LIBERAL scholars will agree with. But apparently not you.

» Migisi - There you go again.

In response to There you go again. posted by BrianTubbs:

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Migisi, he DID get a "dot and tittle by secular historians."
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Post #78, you wrote: "I did not say there were secular sources that dealt with Jesus' life and miracles."
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...that there is non-biblical evidence to support that contention
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What non-biblical ~~evidence~~ is there for JESUS' life and miracles? Is there ~evidence~ or merely ~hearsay~ and interpolations that support a contention? The historians you cite were not eyewitnesses. They didn't live during Jesus' time.
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Grandbabies are here to play. Gotta go. I'll be back later to discuss this.
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-- posted by Migisi

» Brian Tubbs - Ancient World

In response to There you go again. posted by Migisi:

What I think is missing here is an understanding of ancient history. We have a 2007 perspective of the news media. It's true that if there were a miracle worker in Galilee today, all the world would be watching - thanks to CNN, FoxNews, etc. But that was not the case in the ancient world.

Most of those living in Europe, Africa, and the Americas at the time Jesus was in Galilee were clueless. They had no idea and no care for what was happening in that part of the world.

Even within the world of the Roman Empire, most people didn't concern themselves with affairs outside of their own province - unless they were aspiring politicians and/or wealthy businessmen trying to expand holdings beyond their region.

What's more, rumors of a miracle worker in Galilee or Syrio-Palestine wouldn't have turned that many heads in Rome. There were all kinds of superstitions and religious claims and/or beliefs in the ancient world.

It therefore should come as NO surprise that Jesus' life would've been recorded exclusively by people who lived in the area at the time of Jesus' life. Some of those records no doubt made their way into Roman government files, but for the most part, it was Christians and Jews in Palestine that were most interested in Jesus - at the time of his life, that is.

You are asking for something, Migisi, that sounds reasonable to a 2007 individual. But anyone that is the least bit knowledgeable about ancient history and geography knows that what you're looking for is unfair.

Think about it. Give me the ancient historical figures about which we have substantial CONTEMPORARY biographical records.

» pink101 - Ancient World

In response to Ancient World posted by BrianTubbs:

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There were all kinds of superstitions and religious claims and/or beliefs in the ancient world.
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Some survived and some didn't.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Careful not to equalize

In response to Ancient World posted by pink101:

It is a logical fallacy to assume that all religions are equally valid or invalid.

If I lined up 10 people and asked all 10 to give me their opinion on the current war in Iraq, would all 10 arguments be equal in quality and merit?

Perhaps, but it would be fallacious to just ASSUME that they do, right?

So, please don't make the fallacious assumption that all religions and beliefs coming out of the ancient world were equally invalid or equally flawed. It's just not fair or logical to do that.

» pink101 - Careful not to equalize

In response to Careful not to equalize posted by BrianTubbs:

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No, I don't make that error--at least not on purpoliss.
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I do think it is a little over the top to try to defend all there is about Christianity or any other religion for that matter.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - "All there is"

In response to Careful not to equalize posted by pink101:

I do think it is a little over the top to try to defend all there is about Christianity...

Not sure that's even possible. There are hundreds of denominations that disagree on various issues within Christianity. What's the reference point?

In this context, all I'm doing is defending the BASIC BASICS of Christianity. You at least agree with SOME of those basics as does Paper Turtle (more so). Migisi, it seems, not at all. That's my assessment.

» pink101 - "All there is"

In response to "All there is" posted by BrianTubbs:
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Well, Migisi might be as far off as your assessments make her seem to be.
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Personally, I think she does a lot of leg pulling. It's kinda difficult to figure her out.
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Maybe, she likes it that way.
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Are you well experienced in the way women think and act?
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I probably have a lot more experience than you and I can't figure them out; but, I sure do love 'em. Where would we be without them? In fact, that's one of the things I hold against moralistic religions--the idea that a man should only know one woman in his lifetime. That's crazy. Now, don't misunderstand what I mean to say. Don't take that any place.
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I'm reading Raphael's chapter on the Revolutionary Women.
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I think he is a good author--almost an editor the way he brings in so many quotations.
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-- posted by pink101

» paper_turtle - Buddhism vs Christianity

In response to Buddhism vs Christianity posted by Brother_Jones:

I rule out in my own mind the possibility anyone can be a Buddhist Christian or Christian Buddhist, if they take seriously the claims of Christ or Buddha.
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One doesn't have to try to be BOTH. The idea is to recognize that another faith might just contain some valuable insights which might be helpful to one's own particular faith.
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Now, this might be a stretch for me (meaning it might be very unlikely), but suppose I was listening to a Conservative Republican, and I agreed with his proposed solution to a problem. Does this make me a Conservative Republican? Hardly. It simply means I'm willing to consider another point of view.
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle