Protestantism

» pink101 - We Go All The Way.

In response to How far do we go? posted by BrianTubbs:
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If we answer "Yes" to that question, then we need to understand the logical consequences of that answer. If the right to UNIVERSAL health care is a basic HUMAN right, then that means that all 6 billion people on planet earth are entitled - ENTITLED - to full, universal health care.
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Sounds like something a stinking Red Coat would have said in the early 1770s about freedom. I saw a portrayal of Benjamin Franklin and Admiral Clydesdale on the tube as an episode of Daniel Boone out of the 1960s while I was exercising at the club today. I don't know if it was literally correct; but, I'm sure it was technically true. The man who played the role of Clydesdale was magnificent in expressing the self righteousness of the Brits.
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You asked, "How far do we go?", and I answer that we go all the way.
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Some things are better socialized than others. Among them are education, government, and health care.
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I give a resounding Yes!!
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There should be universal health care across the globe.
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But, our concern is for right here in the United States of America. Yes, we need more doctors. Yes, we need more nurses. Yes, we need many more health care providers. Which means we need more medical schools. Which, in turn, means we need better educational facilities and systems. There is an entire industry waiting to be institutionalized for the betterment of humanity. We need a wide open national discussion on the issues involved. I worked with Fire Fighter Paramedics for a while regarding the idea of creating a new tier of health care in the United States. Every Fire House in every community could have a walk in clinic for first health concerns with EMTs and Paramedics providing service under the direction of remote physicians. Studies have been done--it is feasible. Schools could be returned to a place where health care providers visit classrooms on a regular basis.
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It is absolutely the Christian thing that America finally provides Universal Health Care to everyone within its borders.
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Your enumerated response appears to show some big confusion about the issues involved.
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There is absolutely nothing wrong with raising taxes. It was one of the most important bed rock issue with our founders. People who are so unpatriotic that they lose their motivation to earn money because their taxes are raised, deserve to take less out of our system. Others, more patriotic, will move in to fill any vacancies left by the greedy who think the money they earn in this society belongs to them. What pigs!!
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A little creative education can do wonders. What we have now is a dumb down system. When the city of Detroit is only able to graduate 25% of the students that enter the system, you know we have a serious problem. It's a disease and it is spreading across our land. We need some people who are unafraid to stand up against the flow.
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YOU could have courage and be a leader toward a better society. You most certainly have the intellectual ability.
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-- posted by pink101

» paper_turtle - We Go All The Way.

But, our concern is for right here in the United States of America.
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Exactly. If we were to issue a report card on how well America does in terms of protecting and providing for the health of ALL of its citizens, we would not do so well.
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Yes, we need more doctors. Yes, we need more nurses. Yes, we need many more health care providers. Which means we need more medical schools. Which, in turn, means we need better educational facilities and systems.
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BUT a lack of education is not necessarily the main reason for the lack of doctors and/or nurses. Many doctors have left the field of medicine because of all the paperwork, regulations, and total BS having to do with the health insurance industry. Many nurses have left the field because the pay is horrible, working conditions are bad, and they are not given proper respect.
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(I had more to say, but I got interrupted by a phone call; I'll come back later.)
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» pink101 - Sicko

In response to We Go All The Way. posted by paper_turtle:

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If anyone has not yet seen or read the link regarding Michael Moore's new documentary film, Sicko, here it is again.
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http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?s...
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It has been updated. If your computer is capable of video, you can watch the segment involved; otherwise, read the text. I'm sure you will find that it is well worth your time. Universal Health Care is on the way.
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-- posted by pink101

» paper_turtle - Sicko

In response to Sicko posted by pink101:

I don't usually watch Oprah, but I watched the day Michael Moore was on a week or so ago. The show played clips from the movie, and he and Oprah discussed the issues raised in it.
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I have some medical horror stories of my own (personal and about friends/family) that would fit right in with what Moore says in that movie.
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» paper_turtle - Sicko

In response to Sicko posted by pink101:

There was a lot of thought-provoking material in the transcript--and a lot of truth. But this comment, towards the beginning, ... well, it nearly made me toss my breakfast:

GEORGE BUSH: We got an issue in America. Too many good docs are getting out of business. Too many ob-gyns aren't able to practice their love with women all over this country.

Please excuse me, but what the ----? Does he mean what I *think* he means here?

Now, THAT'S sick. I feel the need to shower all over again.

peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» Migisi - Sicko

In response to Sicko posted by paper_turtle:

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Bush is so eloquent and articulate, isn't he. (sarcasm)

-- posted by Migisi

» paper_turtle - Sicko

In response to Sicko posted by Migisi:

Ayah. Reminds me of something my father used to say: "Please be sure your brain is in gear before putting your mouth into motion."
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» Migisi - Sicko

In response to Sicko posted by paper_turtle:

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We must've had twin fathers. Mine used an abbreviated version - "Engage brain, then speak".

-- posted by Migisi

» Brian Tubbs - We Go All The Way.

In response to We Go All The Way. posted by pink101:

You're too emotionally invested in this issue to have a reasonable discussion about it, Pink. My concerns were not "self-righteous" or those of a "stinking Red Coat."

What I'm arguing is that extending universal health coverage (especially QUALITY universal health coverage) to all of the United States of America (let alone all of mankind) would require a complete and total transformation of our economy AND our government.

At the outset, we would need to raise taxes across the board (individuals, families, businesses, etc.) and nationalize the medical profession. This, however, would soon ripple out to the rest of the economy - requiring similar measures in those sectors. For instance, as PaperTurtle alluded to, we would have to more or less nationalize/socialize the insurance industry as well as the legal industry -- since insurance costs and tort / legal costs contribute to driving up health care costs BIG TIME!

It's easy to sit back and say: "Everyone should have access to affordable, quality, universal health coverage." That's an easy and POPULAR statement to make. But HOW do we accomplish that?

I answer that accomplishing it would require a complete and total overhaul of the American system - politically, economically, and culturally. I'm not sure I'm willing to go there.

» Brian Tubbs - Health Care

Pink, I warn you. If you jump on me again - like you did before - this is gonna get ugly quick. And here's why...

CONTRARY to what my liberal friends here might think, I am VERY INTERESTED in health care reform.

I have a mentally disabled/autistic sister who requires services and attention from the health care sector. And I had a mother who went through YEARS of medical treatments and doctors and health services -- due to multiple ailments, ranging from MS to fibromyalgia to chronic back trouble to on and on and on. She died about two years ago from an infection likely acquired from a nursing home. Something called C-DIFF for short.

I also have a son with hydrocephalus.

And I've got friends and church members with numerous, serious health challenges.

So, I don't need anyone sanctimoniously or arrogantly bashing me for being "self-righteous" or too conservative or whatever, because I'm not ready to jump on the universal health care bandwagon. For me, the HOW we get to universal health care is just as important as WHETHER we go to universal health care.

I agree that universal health care is the RIGHT thing to achieve, but I'm NOT willing to embrace socialism / communism to do it. I'm not willing to see the United States of America turn into a Cuba or Venezuela or North Korea or former USSR. I'll fight tooth and nail to stop that from happening!!!!!

But, don't lecture me or presume to say that I'm not committed to helping people with health challenges. I'VE LIVED WITH SUFFERING and HEALTH CHALLENGES - and I've seen the problems of our current system up close and personal!!!! It needs fixing, but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water!