Protestantism

» pink101 - Genuine Questions

In response to Genuine Questions posted by BrianTubbs:
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Brian posits, "If you nationalize health care and extend it AS A GUARANTEE to everyone, then you WILL be forced to dramatically (not slightly, ..."
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So, then, raise taxes.
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Just think of the cost reductions to the automobile companies and all others who provide health care insurance for their employed and retired employees. Humungous savings. The price of automobiles made by the Big Three will drop about $1,000.00 each on the average--more expensive cars much more. THe price of automobiles will be much more competitive and prices will drop generally. That is, if you want to get into a discussion.
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Now, let's see. The cost of the war that the Republicans and the Far Right and Religious Right people have supported in Iraq has cost us how much so far? And, do I need to mention the cost in life and limb.
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There's no need to bring up the tired arguments of the big pharmaceuticals or the big health care insurance company providers who are orgasmic over their profits.
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When hospitals like the one we recently heard about let people die on their waiting room floors and those we hear about that drop their patients off on skid rows in our big cities care more about their profits than they do the life of the uninsured unfortunates, we have a moral crisis in the United States.
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On which side of the moral crisis are you lining up?
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Remember the Whiskey Rebellion, Brian? Which side of that tax would you have been on? The revenues were used to pay off the debts incurred during the War for Independence, right? President George Washington sent in 15,000 armed troops to quell the rebellion if I'm not mistaken.
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The monies people make in their various enterprises in the United States are made because of the protection our society offers. We have a right to tax those monies for whatever purposes provided under the Law of The Land. YOU know that is the truth of the matter.
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I'm quite sure we can afford a tax increase. And, I am quite sure the rich and the super rich can afford stiff increases in their taxes and they can learn to like it or get out--go to African or Asian country where they can keep all their money in some corrupted system. To Hell with them if that is the measure of their greed.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Health Care in Cuba

Interesting op-ed by Fred Thompson (who may very well end up the Republican presidential nominee) on Moore's documentary and its claims re: Fidel Castro's Cuba...

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/FredT...

» pink101 - Health Care in Cuba

In response to Health Care in Cuba posted by BrianTubbs:

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Bunk.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Tax and Spend is Superficial Thinking

With due respect, it's typical liberal-think to identify a need, propose new spending for it, and then raise taxes in order to meet that cost. Even left-leaning analysts can (or at least SHOULD) see that there's a limit to this.

Raising taxes on the rich sounds good on paper, but those higher taxes on the rich ALWAYS have a way of trickling down to the middle class and the poor! Always.

A decent way to tax the rich in a meaningful way (read: a way in which the high taxes STAY with the rich) is to impose a sliding-scale FLAT tax (based on income) and start GUTTING the loopholes.

An even BETTER way is to eliminate the income tax - and replace it with a national sales tax. A tax on SPENDING - as opposed to income - will result in the people who SPEND THE MOST paying the most in taxes.

The current tax system is a MESS, though. If you want to solve health care problems in America, we need to FIX the tax system before we start raising taxes.

Oh, and we also need to do something to curtail the massive litigation going on in America - esp in the area of health care.

Reform the tax system and reform our tort system - and THEN we can talk about health care reform.

» paper_turtle - Brian, various posts

Brian, post #13:
I'm NOT willing to embrace socialism / communism to do it. I'm not willing to see the United States of America turn into a Cuba or Venezuela or North Korea or former USSR.
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Just because something is labeled "socialized" and/or just because someone calling himself a socialist first thought of the idea doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad idea OR that if we accept this ONE idea we will slide into full-blown socialism. As I pointed out in another thread a while ago, early Christian communities were communistic--assets were shared on common. Here in the US the Amana colony was a Christian communistic community, and highly successful for quite a long time.
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Brian, post #22
Can the government decide that some people are obligated (even if it is against their will) to take care of others?
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We already do this through Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and a host of other services. We also force those of us who do not believe in war to support the military.
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I once read somewhere that the health of a nation can be determined by how well this nation takes care of the weak, disabled, and disenfranchised in its population--old and young, male or female, of whatever race. Perhaps if we made compassion a mark of national pride there would not be so much resistance. Perhaps is Christian ministers preached such a message it would help speed things up.
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Right now, our service industries are VOLUNTARY. Doctors, nurses, law enforcement professionals, military personnel, etc. perform services to the public - be it in the area of defense, protection, or health care - because they CHOSE to be in that line of work.
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If you nationalize health care and extend it AS A GUARANTEE to everyone, then you WILL be forced to dramatically (not slightly, not moderately, but dramatically) raise taxes, draft people (eventually) into the health care profession, nationalize other related industries, etc., etc., etc.

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People are now given enticements to enter the field of medicine and teaching through scholarships and extremely low-interest loans. These funds are only available if the person agrees to practice medicine/teach for a specific amount of time, and perhaps in a specific area of the country.
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But if people in the field of medicine did not have to contend with health insurance regulations, and of nurses were paid a decent wage and could work under better conditions, more people would probably be attracted into the field anyway.
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Brian, post #27
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With due respect, it's typical liberal-think to identify a need, propose new spending for it, and then raise taxes in order to meet that cost.
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With all due respect, its typical conservative think to cut the substance out of a social benefits program by changing the requirements so that many people who formerly received help are no longer eligible, and/or cutting the funding so that whatever benefits one receives don't amount to you-know-what.
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Seems to me what liberals do is seek to resurrect and resuscitate these programs. (wink)
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A decent way to tax the rich in a meaningful way (read: a way in which the high taxes STAY with the rich) is to impose a sliding-scale FLAT tax (based on income) and start GUTTING the loopholes.
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An even BETTER way is to eliminate the income tax - and replace it with a national sales tax. A tax on SPENDING - as opposed to income - will result in the people who SPEND THE MOST paying the most in taxes.
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The current tax system is a MESS, though. If you want to solve health care problems in America, we need to FIX the tax system before we start raising taxes.
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Oh, and we also need to do something to curtail the massive litigation going on in America - esp in the area of health care.
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Reform the tax system and reform our tort system - and THEN we can talk about health care reform.
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I agree with you about the need to reform the tax and tort systems, but I don't think we should shelve talking about the need for health care reform until those things are accomplished. And I think much could be done in the meantime to reduce the burden and allow more people to receive the health care they need.
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» pink101 - Brian, various posts

In response to Brian, various posts posted by paper_turtle:

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From Paper_Turtle:
Brian, post #22
Can the government decide that some people are obligated (even if it is against their will) to take care of others?
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And Sister Turtle responds,
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We already do this through Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and a host of other services. We also force those of us who do not believe in war to support the military.
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My curiosity made me wonder what anyone might think of the people who passed by on the other side of the road in the story of the Good Samaritan that is recounted in the Bible.
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-- posted by pink101

» paper_turtle - Good Samaritan

In response to Brian, various posts posted by pink101:

Phil wrote:
My curiosity made me wonder what anyone might think of the people who passed by on the other side of the road in the story of the Good Samaritan that is recounted in the Bible.
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The story is found in Luke 10:29-37.
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Those who passed the wounded man were a priest (vs 31) and Levite (vs 33). Levites were also members of the priesthood. They functioned as gate-keepers, musicians and assistants to priests (and held other functions at different points in Israel's history).
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The Samaritans were considered ritually impure; they were outcasts.
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The priests would have probably justified their passing by because touching the wounded man would have made them ritually impure.
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Ironically, today sometimes people who stop to help have gotten sued, which has led to the passage of Good Samaritan laws to protect these good souls from law suits.
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I would stop--and have, many times--to help someone in distress. I couldn't live with myself if I did not.
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» pink101 - Good Samaritan

In response to Good Samaritan posted by paper_turtle:

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So we can apply the story of the Good Samaritan to the ideas of Aniversal Health Care?
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-- posted by pink101

» paper_turtle - Good Samaritan

In response to Good Samaritan posted by pink101:

So we can apply the story of the Good Samaritan to the ideas of Aniversal Health Care?
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Yuppers, and I would apply it to Universal health care as well. (wink)
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» pink101 - Good Samaritan

In response to Good Samaritan posted by paper_turtle:

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Whoops!
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-- posted by pink101