Protestantism

» pink101 - Funny Thing

Funny thing.

It isn't so much that I love history as it that I want to understand what is going on in our society today.
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It's like when we make some mistake or do something right that we trace back into past to find the original lesson or choice that led us to our present state. Maybe it was some small lesson we learned at our mother's knee or some thing we got away with when we were a small child. In any event we know that it was how the twig was bent that made the tree what it is today.
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So, reflection leads us to the knowledge of how things got to be the way they are today. That's a small understanding and it isn't just that way in our personal walk--it's the same way it is for everyone and for everything including our society and even civilization itself. The study of history teaches us the big--the overall--picture. And American Society is where it is today as a result of our history. And, that means if we want to understand where we have learned the good lessons or made the wrong choices, then, we have to trace our steps to learn what led us up to where we find ourselves today.
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I am seeing a certain strain that has run throughout our history that goes far back into our past--way back. I'm reading a speech George Mason made to the First Congress in which he makes this statement, "The judiciary of the United States is so constructed and extended as to absorb and destroy the judiciaries of the several states; thereby rendering laws as tedious, intricate, and expensive, and justice as unattainable, by a great part of the community, as in England, and enabling the rich to oppress and ruin the poor."
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Now, if we were doing a little study as to why he gave that speech, we would understand it had to do with the protection of the righteousness of the people in that the several states were guilty of making bad laws and expressing rights that were left unprotected. The Anti-Federalists--especially in Virginia--wanted to keep the Federal government weak so that it could not do what Mason connoted in the quotation I gave you.
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Today, we are seeing a surge of support for the positions held by those Anti-Federalists (States Rights Advocates?) and they are threatening us with a treacherous retrograde back in time. Cajolery is the method in which they are unashamedly using religious ideology into fooling well meaning people and taking us for a ride back into the days of empire. Very dangerous times indeed.
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Maybe each one of us can give these thoughts some serious consideration as your grand children's future hangs on the outcome?
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-- posted by pink101

» pink101 - Virginia Declaration of Rights

Here is a link to Virginia Declaration of Rights written by George Mason:
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http://www.nationalcenter.org/VirginiaDe...
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It is one of our most important founding documents.
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It is short, sweet, and to the point.
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-- posted by pink101

» _Boanerges_ - Tyranny and the Military Commissions Act

http://www.lewrockwell.com/hornberger/ho...

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» pink101 - Tyranny and the Military Commissions Act

In response to Tyranny and the Military Commissions Act posted by _Boanerges_:
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Precisely.
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I think Leonard Levy, the author of the book, Origins of The Bill of Rights, that I'm reading is, arguably, one of the most important historians of our time. I recommend his books to everyone.
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Check him out:
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http://www2.alibris.com/search/books/aut...
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - George Mason

In response to Funny Thing posted by pink101:

Don't knock George Mason, Pink. To the extent you do shows your lack of information about the man. If you're glad that the US Constitution has a Bill of Rights included, GEORGE MASON is the Founder you can thank the MOST for that! And THAT, my friend, is a historical fact.

» pink101 - George Mason

In response to George Mason posted by BrianTubbs:
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Don't knock George Mason, Pink
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Don't knock him? I thought I was lined up with those who think he is numbered as one of our--if not the--greatest Founding Fathers. And I thought I had posted that in at least one of these threads.
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He almost single handedly is accountable for the Bill of Rights with a little pushing and buttressing from a few others.
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He's a hero.
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I don't think I could give him more support as a great man. T. Jefferson singled him out as the greatest of his time.

-- posted by pink101

» pink101 - Founders With A Small F

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Raphael gives extensive quotes from original sources to make his points and also uses them to extrapolate his thesis. He is a good author in that sense.
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He quotes many founders with a small f--just common people who were there in the heat of the battles. A soldiers eye view of the war and its many battles. Blood and guts with no apologies.
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I would say that Raphael is a very good historian.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Founders With A Small F

In response to Founders With A Small F posted by pink101:

As I've said before (but I'll say it again), there's a reason why history has recognized the contributions of General George Washington over those of, say, Joseph Plumb Martin. It's not because Washington put his breeches on a different way than Martin or that Washington walked on water. It's that George Washington was the leader of the American Continental Army and his decisions and his perserverence made a greater impact in the war than any other INDIVIDUAL.

Certainly, if you add all the Martins together, then COLLECTIVELY - the masses made a greater impact than Washington as an individual. But that kind of math works both ways. All the Founding Fathers (with a big 'F') made a greater impact combined than an individual Son of Liberty member in Boston. Such math doesn't accomplish anything.

I applaud Raphael for bringing out the contributions of the common man. I know you don't believe me when I say that, no matter how often I say that.

What I dislike is the DIMINISHING and the ridicule of the contributions made by the Founders (big 'F'). And, yes, Zinn in particular has been known to cast ridicule. Can't really say that as much about Raphael, except he's an admitted disciple of Zinn.

BOTTOM LINE...the leaders of the founding generation were leaders (by and large) because the PEOPLE - the masses that you, Zinn, and Raphael praise - ELEVATED those men to be leaders! Doubt me? Why did the common people practically WORSHIP the ground George Washington walked on? And if Raphael isn't acknowledging this, then he's being EXTREMELY selective about who he quotes from the common people. Bottom line...there wasn't the GAP in ideology, perspective, passion, etc. between the Founders (big F) and the founders (small f) that you, Zinn, and Raphael would have us believe.

» pink101 - So Confrontational

In response to Founders With A Small F posted by BrianTubbs:

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You are so confrontational, Brian.
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Reread your last post.
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You made assumptions about what I think and then you based your confrontations on them.
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We can do better than that.
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I don't want to argue point by point with you. But, you take wild shots about what you say I believe then you attack me for that. That's not a fair way to discuss anything intelligently.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - So Confrontational

In response to So Confrontational posted by pink101:

In other words, you say I'm erecting a straw man?

I am more attacking Howard Zinn and what I know of Ray Raphael. Not so much you, but I apologize for being so confrontational.

This is a passionate issue for me. I truly do NOT believe that the common people of that day felt the same way about themselves and about their leaders - the men we call the Founding Fathers - that Zinn and Raphael claim. Some did, to be sure. But not all.