Protestantism

» pink101 - Scripture & Doctrine-2

In response to Scripture & Doctrine-2 posted by paper_turtle:

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This has been a good discussion. It has opened my thinking to include some questions I have sloughed off in the past.
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I will ponder them.
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-- posted by pink101

» paper_turtle - Scripture & Doctrine-2

In response to Scripture & Doctrine-2 posted by pink101:

Phil wrote:
This has been a good discussion. It has opened my thinking to include some questions I have sloughed off in the past.
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I will ponder them.
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:)
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I'll be interested to see what you come up with.
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» paper_turtle - Relevant quotes from Christian sources

Here are some quotes from Christian sources (some of them Catholic) which--as I read them--say much the same thing as what the article, and my comments, have said.
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This is a bit long, but each the quotes (and comments) are relatively brief.
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If God were small enough to be understood, He would not be big enough to be worshiped.
--Evelyn Underhill
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Every time we try to define God (or the mind of God), we make him small.
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Do not be afraid to allow the Holy Spirit to reveal any unforgiveness or bitterness. The longer you hide it, the stronger it will become and the harder your heart will grow. Stay tenderhearted.
--John Bevere
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Our bitterness and refusal to forgive causes suffering. So does hardness of heart. They are the very opposite of goodness, and the opposite of God's love and mercy.
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God is looking for imperfect men and women who have learned to walk in moment-by-moment dependence on the Holy Spirit. Christians who have come to terms with their inadequacies, fears, and failures. Believers who have become discontent with 'surviving' and have taken the time to investigate everything God has to offer in this life.
--Charles Stanley
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Our inadequacies, fears, and failures are the source of our suffering, and very often are attachments--habits of thinking and being which inhibit our ability to see things clearly. When we seek to heal those wounded parts of ourselves we discover life in all its fullness.
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In this crazy world, there's an enormous distinction between good times and bad, between sorrow and joy. But in the eyes of God, they're never separated. Where there is pain, there is healing. Where there is mourning, there is dancing. Where there is poverty, there is the kingdom.
--Henri J. M. Nouwen
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What we perceive as bad causes us to suffer, but if we can learn to trust in God's goodness, and look at whaever comes as an opportunity to grow in spirit, are liberated from suffering, we discover joy.
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Instead of condemning others, strive to reach inner peace. Keep silent, refrain from judgment. This will raise you above the deadly arrows of slander, insult and outrage and will shield your glowing hearts against all evil.
--St. Seraphim of Sarov
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When we focus on how others are wrong we become attached to their actions. We get an emotional pay-back in the form of affirmation for our ego. We make ourselves feel good by making another look bad. But when we point the finger at another three fingers ar always pointing back at us. When we tend our own garden, our perception is no longer focused on the weeds in our neighbor's garden. We see both gardens contain beauty.
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To renew your mind is to involve yourself in the process of allowing God to bring to the surface the lies you have mistakenly accepted and replace them with truth. To the degree that you do this, your behavior will be transformed.
--Charles Stanley
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The Buddhist seeks to see things clearly, without judgment, without negativity. The Buddhist believes illusion is at the root of suffering. In several places in the Gospel, Jesus also addresses the need for clarity of sight, and the hazards of illusions.
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Ultimately, we have just one moral duty: to reclaim large areas of peace in ourselves, more and more peace, and to reflect it towards others. And the more peace there is in us, the more peace there will also be in our troubled world.
--Etty Hillesum
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Both Jesus and Buddha taught that we first need to look within, and be sure we are at peace (in right relationship). When we respond with love and peace, out of our inner stores of love and peace, we cultivate peace in others. Every thing matters, each word, each deed, each thought.
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God said: "When you are self-absorbed, you rob your neighbors of true love and affection. Self-absorption is the foundation and very essence of all evil. Every crime, hatred, cruelty and ugliness comes from the root of self-absorbed love. It poisons the whole world."
--Catherine of Siena, Dialogue
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Self-absorption stems from feelings of inadeqacy. It leads to defensiveness, judgmentalism, jealousy. The self-absorbed person is never satisfied, never at peace. At the heart of Buddhism and Christianity is the relinquishment of the egoic self.
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» Brother_Jones - Relevant quotes from Christian sources

In response to Relevant quotes from Christian sources posted by paper_turtle:

Both Jesus and Buddha taught that we first need to look within, and be sure we are at peace (in right relationship).

Nonsense. Just complete and total nonsense from you.

i am just an oldtimer for the Lord.

-- posted by Brother_Jones

» paper_turtle - Relevant quotes from Christian sources

In response to Relevant quotes from Christian sources posted by Brother_Jones:

I wrote:
Both Jesus and Buddha taught that we first need to look within, and be sure we are at peace (in right relationship).

Brother Jones responded:
Nonsense. Just complete and total nonsense from you.

I could probably find maybe 20 passages to back me up, but how about this one:

If, when you are bringing your gift to the altar, you suddenly remember that your brother has a grievance against you, leave your gift where it is before the altar. Forst go and make your peace with your brother, and only then come back and offer your gift. (Matthew 5:23-24; see also Mark 11:25)

Jesus is referring to the Jewish observance in Yom Kippur. I'm sure you're familiar with that.

In order to make peace with another, one must first be at peace within himself. This is a simple psychological truth.

Nonsense, indeed.

peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» pink101 - Relevant quotes from Christian sources

In response to Relevant quotes from Christian sources posted by Brother_Jones:

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A little fast on the draw there, hipshot.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brother_Jones - Relevant quotes from Christian sources

In response to Relevant quotes from Christian sources posted by paper_turtle:

I could probably find maybe 20 passages to back me up, but how about this one:

Well, I don't actually see any quotes from Buddha on the subject. Should we assume you know your Buddha without any direct quotes?

If, when you are bringing your gift to the altar, you suddenly remember that your brother has a grievance against you, leave your gift where it is before the altar. Forst go and make your peace with your brother, and only then come back and offer your gift. (Matthew 5:23-24; see also Mark 11:25)

What on earth does this quote from Jesus have to with seeking peace within? Of course, we are to ask ourselves what our brother might have against us and then seek him/her out. The passage really isn't about finding peace within but finding your accuser and making peace and reconciliation in a relationship gone sour.

This has little or nothing to do with your assumption that both Jesus and Buddha 'first taught,' to look within with the expectation of finding peace within an unregenerated heart. I am paraphrasing and trying to interpret your writings which seem to lean most heavily on the idea in Buddhism that 'no Savior,' is needed other than the one found in oneself.

That is why it appears nonsense to me to attempt to overlay the teachings of Christ with Buddha.

i am just an oldtimer for the Lord.

-- posted by Brother_Jones

» paper_turtle - The point is

In response to Relevant quotes from Christian sources posted by Brother_Jones:
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In my first post in this thread I made a request:
It would be nice, in discussing these ideas, if we could stick to *just* the ideas **as they are presented** (without reading things into them)--AND try to also practice goodness towards one another.
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I have already had to remind you once before about that request:
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This thread is not intended as a place for the debate of doctrinal points. It is not intended as a place to "defend the faith." I am hoping people will respond with *personal* thoughts--their *own* words, thoughts, feelings, not what they think they "ought" to say. That would be quite a break from Suite tradition, wouldn't it?
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Referring to something as "nonsense" is neither polite nor constructive.
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I explained my point in post #46, above:
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Jesus is referring to the Jewish observance in Yom Kippur. I'm sure you're familiar with that.
In order to make peace with another, one must first be at peace within himself. This is a simple psychological truth.
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I have also explained that I am not trying to "overlay" anything. I am simply pointing out similarities between Buddhism and Christianity.
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I say this respectfully, but if you cannot respond respectfully to what I have said, and speak it with peace, I would prefer you not respond at all. Feel free to start your own thread critical of Buddhism. I won't be there 'cause I'm done with that sort of thing, but have at if that's what pleases you.
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» pink101 - Hell Hath No Fury

In response to Relevant quotes from Christian sources posted by Brother_Jones:

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Hell has no fury like a woman scorned.
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Got it?
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-- posted by pink101

» Brother_Jones - The point is

In response to The point is posted by paper_turtle:

I say this respectfully, but if you cannot respond respectfully to what I have said, and speak it with peace, I would prefer you not respond at all. Feel free to start your own thread critical of Buddhism. I won't be there 'cause I'm done with that sort of thing, but have at if that's what pleases you.

I only intend to try to keep you honest.

Few people know anything at all about Buddhism or its founder. Maybe you can change that a little. And it seems to me that all kinds of assumptions are made about Buddhism without much attention to what Guatama actually said and did in his lifetime. It is human nature to want to compare Christ with any and everyone. You seem like a very Christlike person, but our experience should teach us both that Christ really has no comparable. But even more than experience, His words are again what we are dealing with. Not really your words and not really my words. His.

i am just an oldtimer for the Lord.

-- posted by Brother_Jones