Protestantism

» pink101 - Paper Turtle

In response to Paper Turtle posted by paper_turtle:
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I am so sorry for your daughter's personal loss as well as the loss for your family.
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I know that experience. My sister lost two babies; one stillborn and the other died in a couple of weeks. Heart wrenching in the truest sense. I'm so sorry for Cindy Sheehan and all the Gold Star mothers.
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-- posted by pink101

» pink101 - Frankly

In response to How audacious posted by BrianTubbs:
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Frankly, Brian, I don't know what the truth of the matter is; but, I am involved in a process of uncovering some of it.
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I'm new at learning about history and you're faulting me for going a way to which you are opposed.
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I haven't made any false statements in so far as I know. When I read Zinn and Raphael, I don't notice anything they write that can be faulted as untrue. Pretty much their statements of fact are all referenced.
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I'm getting the feeling that you want your readers to believe that it was the Founding Fathers who whipped the ordinary people up to fight against the Brits. That would be a false impression. You're not trying to give that idea are you?
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-- posted by pink101

» pink101 - Nonsense

In response to Nonsense posted by BrianTubbs:
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Come on, Brian. You know that the Bush Administration has got an agreement with the Iraqi government regarding the oil. It's the same old, same old from the days when the Brits threw the screws into Iraq after they divided it out of Persia.
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The propaganda house is beginning to fall.
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-- posted by pink101

» paper_turtle - Nonsense

In response to Nonsense posted by BrianTubbs:

Brian wrote:
With all due respect, your post is full of left-wing, extremist propaganda nonsense.
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Hardly. What Migisi said about the US going into Iraq with no *apparent* motive is not false. The Bush administration's allegations of huge stockpiles of WMD's has been proven to be fabrication. There is also evidence that Bush was planning to go to war in Iraq before he was sworn into office. A large percentage of the American public agrees with the sentiments Migisi has expressed (including me).
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The United States is not colonizing Iraq.
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If the United States were colonizing Iraq and all Bush wants is profits for Big Oil, then what the US SHOULD do is Seize ALL - not most, but ALL - of the oil for ourselves -- and continue to do so until the fields are DRY! Leave nothing for the Iraqi people.
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But, that's NOT what we're doing. Which means we're either stupid and incompetent colonizers OR we had different motives for going in there.
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Although colonization implies economic exploitation, the fact is that a colonized country is one under the political governance of another--without choice. Did the people or Iraq send a petition to Washington begging the US to come and save them?
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The US would never seize all the oil for themselves because it would be political suicide on a world-wide scale. The US government has to be a lot more sutble than that, otherwise they'd lose all their allies, and they don't have many left as it is.
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» Brian Tubbs - Frankly

In response to Frankly posted by pink101:

I'm new at learning about history and you're faulting me for going a way to which you are opposed.

I'm truly sorry if you feel that way. I try to encourage people to deepen their understanding of history, so accept my apology for making you feel that way. I just want you to EXPAND your search for the truth BEYOND simply Raphael and Zinn. They cover a perspective of history, but theirs is not the only one.

I haven't made any false statements in so far as I know.

Nor have I. I don't think either of us is making intentionally false statements. Sometimes, we may be given to exaggeration, though.

When I read Zinn and Raphael, I don't notice anything they write that can be faulted as untrue. Pretty much their statements of fact are all referenced.

Is what they write "True"? For the most part, YES. (Although, I have caught some errors, like Zinn calling George Washington the wealthiest man in America at that time. That's simply untrue). My main beef with them is that it's not the WHOLE truth.

They paint a very compelling, layered portrait of the disgruntled common folk of American history - the common people of the streets, ghettos, etc. And this is great! But they then CARICATURE all the other classes. This is NOT great. And it's not fair.

» pink101 - The Struggle

In response to Frankly posted by BrianTubbs:
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Gradually I'm beginning to see where our differences are laid.
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You DO support the Republican Party's line of management over labor. That leads one to support the idea that leadership was the most important aspect of the American War for Independence.
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This separation bespeaks humanity's oldest struggle--ordinary people against the suppression of the ruling classes. It is what Jesus was all about in his struggle. And, he was crucified for it.
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And, you, an ordinary person yourself.
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I think you know it; but, you kick against the barbs.
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So to speak.
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:~)
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - The Struggle

In response to The Struggle posted by pink101:

I'll answer this in the other thread. We've got this same debate going on in at least two or three different threads.

» Migisi - Nonsense

In response to Nonsense posted by paper_turtle:
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Although colonization implies economic exploitation, the fact is that a colonized country is one under the political governance of another--without choice.
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So true. The people didn't invite the US to (ehem) 'bring freedom and democracy' to Iraq. There has been economic exploitation of this war, but in a different way than usual. Rather than exploit Iraq (which was and is devastated), the Bush adm. has exploited US tax payers. Think Haliburton. This year, UK firms such as ArmorGroup, and US companies such as Blackwater, DynCorp, Aegis Defence Services - private security corporations - bid to manage the Reconstruction Operations Centers in Iraq. Only companies from countries that joined the US in the invasion are allowed to bid - they get the spoils of war. This ~one~ contract is worth $475 million. Plenty of corporations have been and are getting filthy rich, and don't want to see this war (and their gravy train) end.
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The US would never seize all the oil for themselves because it would be political suicide on a world-wide scale. The US government has to be a lot more sutble than that, otherwise they'd lose all their allies, and they don't have many left as it is.
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Exactly, Paper. But if you and I can see this, surely the world leaders can and do.

-- posted by Migisi

» Migisi - Nonsense

In response to Nonsense posted by BrianTubbs:
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With all due respect, your post is full of left-wing, extremist propaganda nonsense. The United States is not colonizing Iraq.
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Don't feign respect for me, Brian. You think I'm a left-wing extremist talking treason - just like Cindy. Someday, when you've got a few more years, and a few more wars, under your belt, you'll see how things really work. You won't be so eager to swallow the lies your government tells you. You'll see, in time.
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But, that's NOT what we're doing.
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What ARE we doing, Brian? Tell me.

-- posted by Migisi

» pink101 - Nonsense

In response to Nonsense posted by Migisi:

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Exactemento.
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-- posted by pink101