Protestantism

» paper_turtle - On the 'net

In response to Probably a detour, but ... posted by pink101:

The interenet carries with it an anonymity that face to face interaction cannot share. We give ourselves more freedom to be blunt in our comments than we might in a face to face confrontation. Maybe it can be seen that the standards of contact as you put it are totally up to the individual.
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Yes--anonymity. People in cars operate under the assumption that they too are anonymous and therefore its OK to be rude. And we have seen an escalation in road rage to the point that some people have even died as a result.
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The culture of my family and my neighborhood places great value on civility and honesty. We prize gentleman-/womanly conduct, and we believe honesty implies being ones best person whether or not anyone can see us. This was what I was taught at home and in school. This is still how *most* people behave in my town. (We have one of the lowest crime rates in the state.)
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Is it really "freedom" if Joe's freedom to be less than civil infringes on the rights of another to speak his/her mind? Is it really "freedom" if someone's verbal aggression causes another pain or embarrassment?
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And if I allow myself the freedom to be less than my best, will I not diminish myself?
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Your John Donne quote from earlier today would suggest that we are all connected. What affects one affects all. This is true in real, and virtual, life.
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» pink101 - On the 'net

In response to On the 'net posted by paper_turtle:
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I don't know that people operature under the assumption that it's okay to be rude.
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I think they're upset that there is so much P.C. going on in their life that they blast out when they can without fear of reprisal.
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And, there are two distinct definitions of freedom in America. You express a type and George W. expresses another type. When we hear and see him framing freedom in his terms we gradually take on the thinking that the form you're expressing is that of an efete and slippery liberal.
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That's part of what the struggle is all about.
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Things changed in America during the twentieth century.
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Will the conservatives win?
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-- posted by pink101

» redback - Some Interesting Comments

In response to Some Interesting Comments posted by pink101:

Your link refers to printed media only? Of course as you know, there's the 'net, TV, public hearings, even mobile phones etc etc.

In my other life, probably 1985?, the boss did an experiment on 100% of the routine info that passed through our office that HAD to be read. She read all instructions etc and found she could not do that AND her job. She found staff read operational instructions so the system did not stuff up, pay and condition changes in case they missed out on money BUT had no time to read ANY policy instructions on how to do their job the right way. The purpose of this was to improve communication flows..towards a 'paperless' office. Remember that ideal??? There is now printout overload and email rage!

You indicate people's relative rudeness is primarily a reaction to excess PC if I read you right. Undisciplined displays of 'rudeness' existed long before the need to introduce laws trying to manage this...to encourage people to leave their attitudes at home. These gradually got abused to the extent PC was solely a derisive term by a public barely paying lip service to it in the first place. I'm thinking abuse has been in our genes since at least 'Adam's' children.

Paper Turtle shows us the definition.

I ponder the many references to the alleged ill-informed among us, even here. Information is not only about information you want. Apparently, even the Bible couldn't fit all the information about Jesus into it and I sure as bleep can't read all the worthwhile topics within suite101, let alone 100% of the multimedia's desire to tell me something for myself or for me to pass it on to another who has less access.

YEP, I think there's the potential for overload and victims of it. I hope to maintain the discipline to avoid it so I'll be logging off for awhile.

-- posted by redback

» pink101 - This Song and Our Culture

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There is hope for us--great hope!
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Here is a beautiful song and it is right out of our culture. Know that and be happy for our destiny.
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Liberalism stands strong no matter the storm.
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http://www.ziplo.com/AnchorHolds.html
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I have journeyed
Through the long, dark night
Out on the open sea
By faith alone
Sight unknown
And yet His eyes were watching me

The anchor holds
Though the ship is battered
The anchor holds
Though the sails are torn
I have fallen on my knees
As I faced the raging seas
The anchor holds
In spite of the storm

I've had visions
I've had dreams
I've even held them in my hand
But I never knew
They would slip right through
Like they were only grains of sand

The anchor holds
Though the ship is battered
The anchor holds
Though the sails are torn
I have fallen on my knees
As I faced the raging seas
The anchor holds
In spite of the storm

I have been young
But I am older now
And there has been beauty
That these eyes have seen
But it was in the night
Through the storms of my life
Oh, that's where God proved
His love to me

The anchor holds
Though the ship is battered
The anchor holds
Though the sails are torn
I have fallen on my knees
As I faced the raging seas
The anchor holds
In spite of the storm

I have fallen on my knees
As I faced the raging seas
The anchor holds
In spite of the storm

-- posted by pink101

» pink101 - Some Interesting Comments

In response to Some Interesting Comments posted by redback:
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I hear what you're saying in your thoughtful post.
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I agree with much of it; but, differ on some.
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My praxis has always been communications. As a small boy, I remember being fascinated by the idea of advertising.
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It was one step after another from there on out nearly seventy years later than that day when my brother told me he won a spelling bee match at school because he was the only one who could spell the word, advertisement. I asked him what it meant.
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There is such a thing as communication overload. There is so much that we cut almost all of it out. That's dangerous for our society.
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-- posted by pink101

» redback - Some Interesting Comments

In response to Some Interesting Comments posted by pink101:

"I agree with much of it; but, differ on some."

Just to help this old codger out, seeing we both seem to agree there is information overload, where do our views diverge on it?

"There is such a thing as communication overload. There is so much that we cut almost all of it out."

as per my 1985 example.

Look, even when we agree, there's a sniff of disagreement. Our different experiences provide different examples is all I see. But then, I'm guessing.

-- posted by redback

» pink101 - Some Interesting Comments

In response to Some Interesting Comments posted by redback:
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You seem to be saying that rudeness has always been about like it is now.
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I don't agree on that.
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I believe that rudeness is much more evident today than it was fifty years ago. Maybe it is tied in to the disappearance of community and the growth of urban society. People in rural society interact more kindly with each other. It probably is related to the sense of knowing people and their families. But, that's a guess.
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-- posted by pink101

» paper_turtle - Rudeness

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In response to Some Interesting Comments posted by pink101:
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I believe that rudeness is much more evident today than it was fifty years ago. Maybe it is tied in to the disappearance of community and the growth of urban society. People in rural society interact more kindly with each other. It probably is related to the sense of knowing people and their families. But, that's a guess.
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Rudness has always existed, but I agree it seems to be increasing. When my son was in school our home was THE gathering place for all his friends. I was often appalled at what his playmates had *not* been taught--such as needing to knock before you enter, not helping yourself to what's in the fridge without asking first. I made it plain that if they wanted to hang out in my house they had to abide by the house rules, which were (to my way of thinking) basic rules of courtesy.
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There is 17 years difference between my son and daughter (who is the older). When her friends came to play at our house I didn't have to spend much time enforcing the rules. They just knew, because their parents had taken the time to teach them.
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People in rural areas are more civil in part because they have a sense of community which comes from everyone knowing everyone else. But its also pragmatism. Life is more challenging, and if you antagonize your neighbors they won't help you out when your well dries up or you loose your corn crop.
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» paper_turtle - Rudeness--PS

In response to Some Interesting Comments posted by pink101:

I forgot to mention that I think the 'net has contributed to the increase in rudeness because of its anonymity.
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In relation to that, have you ever read Erich Fromm's The anatomy of Human Destructiveness? He says that one of the symptoms of alienation is that people resort to violent means of communication (rudeness, profanity) as a way of shocking people into paying attention and connecting with them.
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» paper_turtle - Sociology

In response to Probably a detour, but ... posted by pink101:

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Phil wrote:
It's part of the group formation process and, as such, it is the subject of much study by sociologists. Sociology, as you may know, is a subset of study under the broader fields of Communications Studies . . . . Scholars are just beginning to scratch the surface of the issues involved in this what seems to be an inexhaustible pursuit.
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Yes. My BA degree was a self-designed major in communications, with minors in history, sociology, and psychology. Many of the principles I had studied in sociology were highly relevant to my studies at Woodbury in Prevention and Community Development. In particular, the dynamics of group and community formation are a crucial element in formulating an effective prevention program.
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle