Protestantism

» paper_turtle - The Problem

In response to The Problem posted by pink101:

My question was:
not everyone finds history interesting. How do you propose to reach those who say, "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn"? Just telling them its important isn't going to open their ears.
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Notice: I did not say I don't care. I said there are **others** who don't care about history, and are not going to pay attention if you talk to them from the POV of history.
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What will you say to them?
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Your response (below) didn't seem to provide any answer. I don't know to whom you are addressing your remarks? Where do you assume I stand in relation to what you said?

Phil wrote:
Maybe we can think of the problem as just one more burden we can cast on Jesus with all the rest that perplex us? Isn't that what we're taught to do?
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God is still in control and, so, there's nothing we can do about it anyway. Don't even give it a second thought, right?
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That's how we got to be where we are. Kinda like the dark ages, wouldn't you say?
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And we have intelligent people telling us, "And, don't you forget it. It's all in [His] book of absolute truth."
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How can you stand up against such supernatural reasoning? Buy into part of it, swallow the whole thing hook, line, sinker, and camel. Gulp.
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And, I think there are many other options than the one you offer, immediately above.
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» HeadZenCards - Surviving Ghosts and Tea

In response to Zen & the art of Commnication posted by paper_turtle:

Nan-in, a Japanese master during the Meiji era (1868-1912), received a university professor who came to inquire about Zen.

Nan-in served tea. He poured his visitor's cup full, and then kept on pouring.

The professor watched the overflow until he no longer could restrain himself.

"It is overfull. No more will go in!"

"Like this cup," Nan-in said, "you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?"

A young wife fell sick and was about to die. "I love you so much," she told her husband, "I do not want to leave you. Do not go from me to any other woman. If you do, I will return as a ghost and cause you endless trouble."

Soon the wife passed away. The husband respected her last wish for the first three months, but then he met another woman and fell in love with her. They became engaged to be married.

Immediately after the engagement a ghost appeared every night to the man, blaming him for not keeping his promise. The ghost was clever too. She told him exactly what has transpired between himself and his new sweetheart.

Whenever he gave his fiancee a present, the ghost would describe it in detail. She would even repeat conversations, and it so annoyed the man that he could not sleep.

Someone advised him to take his problem to a Zen master who lived close to the village. At length, in despair, the poor man went to him for help.

"Your former wife became a ghost and knows everything you do," commented the master. "Whatever you do or say, whatever you give you beloved, she knows. She must be a very wise ghost. Really you should admire such a ghost. The next time she appears, bargain with her. Tell her that she knows so much you can hide nothing from her, and that if she will answer you one question, you promise to break your engagement and remain single."

"What is the question I must ask her?" inquired the man.

The master replied: "Take a large handful of soy beans and ask her exactly how many beans you hold in your hand. If she cannot tell you, you will know she is only a figment of your imagination and will trouble you no longer."

The next night, when the ghost appeared the man flattered her and told her that she knew everything.

"Indeed," replied the ghost, "and I know you went to see that Zen master today."

"And since you know so much," demanded the man, "tell me how many beans I hold in this hand!"

There was no longer any ghost to answer the question.

The above is from http://www.thezensite.com/MainPages/koan...

Nan-in only served tea but completely DROWNED that poor fellow.

Violence done to a "healthy" ego is completely reprehensible to it. And it's hard to watch turtles drown, but if the objective is to get them to swim, there is no other way.

Jesus was the true bride of the sheep who are his Warm and Fuzzy followers.

Unfortunately, as Christians read about him, he becomes more of an irritating ghost.

Most of them call his lingering, nightmarish non-presence a "Holy Ghost", thinking it a lucky talisman that will save them from troubles when the chief trouble is that Jesus is really not there at all.

Ask him to tell you how many soy beans you have in your hand RIGHT NOW. Watch him disappear.

-- posted by HeadZenCards

» pink101 - The Problem

In response to The Problem posted by paper_turtle:
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I guess I was saying that there's not much can be done about people who do not care about history. And, I was adding that that type usually adheres to some ideology they've picked up along the way.
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Right now, civilization is going through a tough time. We're on the cusp of moving away from an extended period of the Dark Ages into the Post Modern Age. On this cusp, we have die hards, scoffers, moderates, radicals, and a whole raft of others. I think it is possible that the Bush administration represents a dying gasp of some of the nut cases of religiosity. At least I hope so.
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There is so much about religions like Judaism, Christianity, and Islam that falls off the edge that only a person blinded to reality cannot see it. Ollie's rantings actually take away from reasonable considerations more than they help by pointing up how much Christians have to put up with from such assaults on their beliefs.
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-- posted by pink101

» paper_turtle - The Problem

In response to The Problem posted by pink101:

I guess I was saying that there's not much can be done about people who do not care about history. And, I was adding that that type usually adheres to some ideology they've picked up along the way.
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My hunch is if you did an informal man-on-the-street survey about history you'd find that most people are largely indifferent. And don't we all, in a sense, have an ideology?
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You and I agree that history is important, but giving up on those who don't know, and don't care to learn about, history doesn't seem like an answer.
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I think Ollie's posts point out how little people really understand (as opposed to know) about matters of faith. I think they also point out what happens when faith becomes all about chasing factoids rather than looking within.
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» pink101 - The Problem

In response to The Problem posted by paper_turtle:
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You're probably correct.
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I might be stopped by forces outside my control; but, I am persistent and don't give up.
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-- posted by pink101

» HeadZenCards - The Problem

In response to The Problem posted by pink101:

Good for you!

I encourage my grandchildren to make house rules when they visit, as long as they have a factoid to back them up.

Different strokes for different folks.

-- posted by HeadZenCards

» paper_turtle - Persistence

In response to The Problem posted by pink101:

Phil wrote:
I might be stopped by forces outside my control; but, I am persistent and don't give up.
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Well, as they used to say in the 70's, "Keep on truckin"
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» pink101 - Persistence

In response to Persistence posted by paper_turtle:
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The guy with the big shoes and the full legged trousers?
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How about, "Keep on Bikin'"?
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I'm gonna have to get me a motorcycle afore I die.
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-- posted by pink101

» paper_turtle - Persistence

In response to Persistence posted by pink101:

The guy with the big shoes and the full legged trousers?
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Yuppers. Looking back, I totally don't get how I didn't fall down and hurt myself wearing stuff like that. I tried on a pair of bellbottoms a year ago, and got all tangles up in them. LOL

How about, "Keep on Bikin'"?
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I'm gonna have to get me a motorcycle afore I die.
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Go for it! The thought scared the beejeebers out of me--but I love to drive really fast, any chance I get.
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Me, I want to learn how to tango.
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» pink101 - Persistence

In response to Persistence posted by paper_turtle:
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It takes two to tango.
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-- posted by pink101