Protestantism

» Brother_Jones - Makes No Difference

In response to Makes No Difference posted by HeadZenCards:

Sorry, I don't hang on the words of the doctors or scientists. Maybe when I get your age in about a year, I'll sober up and start thinking about getting really old and going up in science fireball. lol.

i am just a littler younger than you but still an oldtimer for the Lord.

-- posted by Brother_Jones

» pink101 - Makes No Difference

In response to Makes No Difference posted by Brother_Jones:
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I can't really do it.
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It's exactly what you do. You ARE a product of your culture--nothing is more obvious. We all are.
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We are just like the flowers and weeds that grow in the soil where they are planted. You might be in a different garden and maybe the gardeners who cultivated you treated you somewhat differently than those that gardened me; but, we all are products of the culture in which we grow. There is no choice.
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Your gardeners might have cultivated a belief in your mind that you are different; but, that was a false belief.
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-- posted by pink101

» pink101 - Makes No Difference

In response to Makes No Difference posted by pink101:
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You just think you have a free will.
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And, so do I.
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But, we are acting exactly according to the program whatever it is.
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-- posted by pink101

» HeadZenCards - Makes No Difference

In response to Makes No Difference posted by pink101:

Being a contrarian, I am programmed to disagree. But, then, being a contrarian, I disagree with my assessment.

-- posted by HeadZenCards

» pink101 - Makes No Difference

In response to Makes No Difference posted by HeadZenCards:
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You are disagreeable, is that it?
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:)

-- posted by pink101

» Brother_Jones - Makes No Difference

In response to Makes No Difference posted by pink101:

we all are products of the culture in which we grow. There is no choice.

You won't find any agreement in the New Testament for that idea. Christians are going to disagree with you based on the words of Jesus to go into the world and preach the gospel.

You will find some light agreement among some liberal Christians who have come to believe that only the teachings that already agree with their church are important. And even more close to home, only the teachings of Jesus which already fit into their own personal theology are important. Those folks might fit your equation of culture.

I guess you believe Paul the Apostle fits into your theory of culture with no choice. But some things are obvious. He doesn't.

I don't mean to deny the important role of culture. I think we already stated in another thread that we live in a culture that gives lip service to Jesus Christ without ever having read the bible or articulated any known position other than the address of their church. And certainly those folks probably fit your idea of culture somewhat.

But to say we have no choice and we are completely culture driven is to give up on Jesus Christ, imo.

i am just an oldtimer for the Lord.

i am just an oldtimer for the Lord.

-- posted by Brother_Jones

» pink101 - Makes No Difference

In response to Makes No Difference posted by Brother_Jones:
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But to say we have no choice and we are completely culture driven is to give up on Jesus Christ, imo.
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I can't agree with that.
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We HAVE choices. But, they are strictly limited to what it is that is offered to us. And, in our culture, we are offered Jesus Christ as an option.
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If you're smart enought you can understand the implications that fact brings with it. Obviously, we want to know the option. To live a life of bitter defeat like Ollie? I don't think so. But, if we choose Jesus, we give up our ideas of reality and accept his. We have to move away from where we are to a new place. And, in THAT place we are promised with will find our true self. Not a puppet's life hung on strings.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brother_Jones - Makes No Difference

In response to Makes No Difference posted by pink101:

Thanks for clarifying it. I think I see what you mean.

i am just an oldtimer for the Lord.

-- posted by Brother_Jones

» pink101 - Makes No Difference

In response to Makes No Difference posted by pink101:
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In other words, I think we have to understand what it means to give up our old self to gain our new self.
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There are two distinct ways of looking at that.
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We just can't get away from the ideas of freedom and liberty.
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-- posted by pink101

» redback - Item 28

In response to Item 28 posted by Brother_Jones:

"Well in some ways we all have to stick to our story or some story. lol.
And your story appears to be a head-on collision with Christian culture."

I know my questions collide with 'Christian faith'..which I overlap with the term 'Christian culture' whatever else others may mean by that term. And I check up on 'heresy' and 'blasphemy' from time to time given my tendency to be irreverent. BTW your last long sentence was too much of a doozy for me to absorb.

I'm outside my comfort zone on Christianity and am happy to stay out of that zone until matters that matter make more sense. Who knows where I would be placed IF all the WHAT IFs occurred.

I've got to get my head around Pink's style. Pink's using interesting expressions in small sound bytes over several posts where all need to be read in order to get context. So, for example, when he referred to the presumably passive weed awaiting whatever the gardener has planned, there was no mention yet of any innate capacity to respond independently of this (external) "gardener". Our only choices are set externally? I can't say I disagree when it's only part of the message.

-- posted by redback