Protestantism

» jlthomp - Re: Arrogance comment by Migisi

I was impressed, Migisi, with the list of Bible verses(and the parenthetic comments) you posted. Those are many of the same verses our "Name It And Claim It" brethren cite, attempting to prove they can blackmail God by holding his promises against him. Obviously, I don't hold their position too highly.

First, please note that the EMPHASIS you included in your quotations were NOT included in the actual texts. Such EMPHASIS throws the application out of balance, making it a PARTIAL truth. And a PARTIAL truth is a partial LIE.

In a few of those verses, Jesus included qualifiers that are inferred for all of them: "If you believe ..." "... believe that you have received it, ..." "... seek(Are you a seeker, or an arbitrary skeptic?) and you will find, ..." "... ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father." "If you remain in me and my words remain in you ..."Then(After the condition, 'I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit-fruit that will last' is met.) the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name." Please understand the phrase, "In my name," when Jesus spoke it. You or anyone else can stand, reciting Jesus' name with ridiculous demands, and not, in fact, be asking in Jesus' name. To ask in Jesus' name is to ask in his authority, as one of his ambassadors. Do you qualify, Migisi?

The apostle James specified another qualifier in response to objections similar to yours. "But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask from God, who gives to all freely and with no reproach, and it will be given to him. But let him ask in faith, doubting nothing. For the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, being driven by wind and being tossed; for do not let that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double-souled man, not dependable in all his ways." (James 1:5-8 LITV) Please note that I included context with my "proof" verse. Someone wiser than I once said, "A text out of context is a pretext."

-- posted by jlthomp

» Migisi - Re: Brief reply

In response to Re: Arrogance comment by Migisi posted by jlthomp:
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Review:
Brian posted (#25): "Prayer isn't about asking God for anything you want - for whatever motive you want - and then claiming it by faith. .... But that's NOT what the Bible teaches."
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And I responded (#30): "Sure, the Bible teaches this. Jesus said ..." and I then provided Jesus' words.
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First, please note that the EMPHASIS you included in your quotations were NOT included in the actual texts.
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Yes. Are you mentioning this for the benefit of others here, or do you think I didn't notice that I capitalized words? I was responding to Brian's "asking", "anything" and "whatever", hence the emphasis on certain words.
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Jesus included qualifiers ...
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Which I did not omit.
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To ask in Jesus' name is to ask in his authority, as one of his ambassadors.
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I know. I'm not new to Christianity.
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Do you qualify, Migisi?
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Do you, James?
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The apostle James specified another qualifier in response to objections similar to yours.
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What 'objections' in my post would those be?

-- posted by Migisi

» HeadZenCards - Re: Brief reply

In response to Re: Brief reply posted by Migisi:

Matthew 7:7-8 is a clear and unambiguous statement. There are no qualifiers before or after it.

And you have my permission to capitalize whatever words you wish! It's a free country and it does NOT add or take away from the MEANING of the text. It's an aid that should be appreciated.

Even if there were qualifiers in front of the "ask and receive" words of Jesus, could the purest of posters or preachers get whatever they ask for?

Not all the time, no. Therefore, what Jesus said was a lie.

Why is this so hard to understand?

Because if he lied about that, he may have lied about other things.

IMHO, Christianity is a BIG lie wrapped in a thousand little ones.

-- posted by HeadZenCards

» jlthomp - Re: Brief reply

In response to Re: Brief reply posted by Migisi:

Hello again. I noticed you used my given name. Only my most intimate friends do that, and I'd like to consider you, despite our differences, on that short list. So please continue.

To answer your question, I am one of Jesus' ambassadors, a position and responsibility that I, like everyone who has claimed his name, entered into by faith. And the topic of "faith" is, as I'm sure you've noticed, a worm-can of monstrous proportions. Reason being, those discussing it in a forum such as this do not share the same presuppositions, definitions, or experiences with faith.

Neither of us will persuade the other to abandon our carefully considered and long held positions. The "I'm right and you're wrong" approach is fatally flawed, if not completely inane. It goes against the ideal of open discussion that makes Suite101 shine among the uncountable opinion forums that clutter the Internet.

Speaking for myself, I hope to completely abandon sarcasm and innuendo as weapons of discussion. Weapons have no place in honest discussion, and to resort to them is to admit that ones position is weak.

Are you listening, HeadZenCards?

-- posted by jlthomp

» jlthomp - The Measure of Violence

In response to The Measure of Violence posted by paper_turtle:

Well said, Paper ... er ... Turtle. I'm not sure how to properly address you. In truth, I am green-eyed jealous of your creativity in choosing your username. My choice was completely pragmatic. I mean, "jlthomp?" Gimme a break.

Reading your profile gave me an appreciation of your comments in this forum. You might be interested in my reply to "Migisi," at http://protestantism.suite101.com/discus...

-- posted by jlthomp

» HeadZenCards - Re: Brief reply

In response to Re: Brief reply posted by Migisi:

What believers in a LORD GOD who inspired infanticide dismiss is the detail involved in killing a baby or child.

The muscles, tendons, bone, brain and guts that would cover its followers, progressively getting worse with duller and duller knives that the all-knowing LORD GOD preordained, should overwhelm any ego and get today's Christians to confess that they would not perform the LORD GOD's will in every situation.

This, of course, would mean that Jesus would tell them to depart at the worst possible time, according to Matt. 7:21-23.

Most Christians, when you tell them about 1 Sam. 15, proclaim that they do not believe in that part of the Bible. They'll come to terms with Matthew in good time.

They face facts. Others duck the issue and wish to discuss imperfect personalities.

At least I never embraced or encouraged infanticide.

Are you listening, True Believer?

-- posted by HeadZenCards

» Migisi - Re: Brief reply

In response to Re: Brief reply posted by jlthomp:
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Speaking for myself, I hope to completely abandon sarcasm and innuendo as weapons of discussion. Weapons have no place in honest discussion, and to resort to them is to admit that ones position is weak.
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Are you listening, HeadZenCards?
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And you were hoping to abandon sarcasm and inneundo? Hee hee. Yeah, okay.
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-- posted by Migisi

» paper_turtle - The Measure of Violence

In response to The Measure of Violence posted by jlthomp:

Thanks, Jim.

People here usually call me the full name, or shorten it to Paper or simply PT. Any of those is just fine.

Thanks for the link; I've been following the discussion.

peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» Migisi - Re: Brief reply

In response to Re: Brief reply posted by HeadZenCards:
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It's my birthday today, Ollie. Happy birthday to me. Yippee... I'm old. I'm going to the steak house with my kids and grandkids. Now, if the little darlings misbehave tonight at supper, I'll gather up border stones and take good aim... or I'll ask the chef for a sharp knife. That'll teach em! (wink)

-- posted by Migisi

» redback - Re: Brief reply

In response to Re: Brief reply posted by Migisi:

People and their birthdays! Twas my unfortunate duty less than 2 hours ago to tell a husband, his wife was not 60, but 59. They were both too eager to be 'seniors' within the meaning of 'senior' to get a concession card ie $2.50 all day bus, train, ferry rides. She was clearly unhappy to be only 59 and he was unhappy she "fibbed" to him. Me in the middle.

I hope you had a really great birthday...it's already 2:10pm, Wednesday here so I'm guessing it was 'true yesterday', not the time you guys follow.

My birthday commemorations are currently 10 years apart. the 60th's coming up in July, the 70th if I make it, in 2017.

-- posted by redback