Protestantism

» Migisi - Savages By Nature

In response to Savages By Nature posted by pink101:

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I think people are inherently good and looking for ways to improve their experiences in life.
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As I see it, people look for ways to please themselves. Example: I give a ten spot to a bum, ~I~ feel good, and that pleases ~me~.
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You seem to think you have found the ultimate answers.
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Is there such a thing as a final (ultimate) answer? Only on 'Who Wants to Be a Millionare'.

I think there are other ways of looking at the issues involved.
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Sure. My eyeglasses might not fit you. I get that.

-- posted by Migisi

» Migisi - Savages By Nature

In response to Savages By Nature posted by paper_turtle:
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First of all, **many** do not accept the idea that God really is like that.
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So, basically, they create their own concept of God, right? Pick and choose what fits them, disgard the rest.
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How can you know the nature of the God they are worshipping?
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By reading sacred texts?
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Further, I don't believe **every** religion in the world is founded upon, or condones, savagery.
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I'm interested in learning about the ones that don't. Name me a religion that doesn't.
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Even those whose scriptures *might* mention murder and warfare do not necessarily adhere to the delusion that these acts are in any way good.
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I've presented a plethora of Bible verses. If the God of the Bible is all-loving and good, how do you explain them?

-- posted by Migisi

» Migisi - Savages By Nature

In response to Savages By Nature posted by Migisi:

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disgard the rest.
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Correction: disgard - choose 'discard' or 'disregard'. Your choice.

-- posted by Migisi

» HeadZenCards - Savages By Nature

In response to Savages By Nature posted by Migisi:

Excellent question!

My experience is that people have religious associations LOOSELY.

They don't know and don't care what their so-called "holy books" actually say.

They just like being around the people who are in the particular "assembly of God" they find or were brought up in.

They typically have children and hope that being in association with these people will help keep their children out of trouble (and masturbating less, what with Jesus watching them like some demented Santa).

Once adults are challenged by good people like you and me to pick up their holy book, read the damm thing, then wash their hands thouroughly, they usually have one of three reactions.

Either they go EEEWWWWW and run away from it like you, me and the wind, or they become confrontational and tell you that they don't NEED to read it because they trust their preacher (in other words, they don't WANT to read it or can't read and you can't make them), or they become apologists for the violence because they think that the LORD GOD will bring ETERNAL PUNISHMENT to them if they question their faith (in other words, they're afraid).

The majority of these good folks have been fooled by the original scribes. But the original scribes were not a good enough sample of the human race to give up on it entirely.

Even if every human being wrote like the scribes of the holy books, I'd still give them a pass. Writers know when they are writing fiction and aren't really responsible for idiots that take their fiction seriously.

I imagine that the original scribes of the Bible knew that they were writing violent fiction, not unlike Steven King knows he is writing violent fiction today.

The only malevolent people are ones who promote fiction as fact. May they choke on the profit they make.

-- posted by HeadZenCards

» Migisi - Savages By Nature

In response to Savages By Nature posted by HeadZenCards:
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or they become apologists for the violence because they think that the LORD GOD will bring ETERNAL PUNISHMENT to them if they question their faith (in other words, they're afraid).
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You mean .. he'll do unto them what he's done unto others? I'd be afraid. Very afraid.
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I'll be back later. Real life beckons.

-- posted by Migisi

» HeadZenCards - Savages By Nature

In response to Savages By Nature posted by Migisi:

Every true believer is PROUD of being afraid of the LORD GOD. But guess what? There is no LORD GOD. Never was.

We should invite people to wake up. I understand that some people when they first wake up, before their first cup of coffee, have a tendency to thrash about and knock people and things all over whereever they are, before they accept that their dream is over.

This is what is so great about the internet. True believers in the LORD GOD who actually read posts here ARE waking up, but they can't get their hands on me.

-- posted by HeadZenCards

» paper_turtle - Savages By Nature

In response to Savages By Nature posted by Migisi:

There's a thunderstorm on the way so I may have to shut down. Therefore I'm going to try to keep this very brief--and don't be surprised it it ends abruptly.

I wrote:
First of all, **many** do not accept the idea that God really is like that.
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Misigi answered:
So, basically, they create their own concept of God, right? Pick and choose what fits them, disgard the rest.
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Aren't you doing the same thing? Haven't you created your own concept of God as the ogre? How is that any different than what you accuse others of doing?
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But its not a matter of just going through a menu of alledged facts and picking out the ones you like. Its a matter of discarding manmade doctrine, and instead concentrating on one's presonal experience with God (by whatever name one chooses to call him). People do this with people all the time--and that's just fine. Jane thinks John is a jerk, but Mary things he's damn near perfect. They're both looking at the same person but they see something, experience something, entirely different.
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I wrote:
How can you know the nature of the God they are worshipping?
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Misigi answered:
By reading sacred texts?
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Have you read the entire Bible from cover to cover? Have you read the entire contents of any other sacred text? Even if you had, just reading it, isn't enough to understand it.
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But I feel quite confident that most believers have not read their sacred texts from cover to cover. Most christians, if they read the Bible at all, stick to the lectionary readings, and maybe the Psalms. They might read watered-down versions of the bible to their children. They have not read those passages HZC loves to constantly quote. They have not heard their ministers relate these stories from the pulpit. So you can't condemn them for knowing, and approving, what they don't even know.
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But, let's look (briefly) at those who have studied the Bible, from a liberal point of view. They would tell you this whole God the baby killer thing is a non-issue. People wrote those stories about massacering innocents, not God. People, from a primitive culture which saw nothing wrong with what we now know is beyond reprehensible. God had nothing to do with it. Its not God's fault that foolish people ascribed his/her name to those stories. And those who have used those stories to justify their own sickness are equally deluded.
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What my fellow liberal Christians would tell you it that what they know about God doesn't come from a book, it comes from their relationship with him--and the God they know is no ogre.
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peace and love,
Paper Turtel
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-- posted by paper_turtle

» HeadZenCards - Savages By Nature

In response to Savages By Nature posted by paper_turtle:

The God they know may not be an ogre, but guess what? The God that they know is in their OWN MIND.

If I am wrong about this, please produce the God that you are having a relationship with, even the God you insist that liberal Christians are having a relationship with.

You can't without refering to the experience you have in your own mind.

You can point to another's experience and presume that it is the SAME experience that you are having, but that could be your own mind deluding itself and is not proof.

You can refer to the words of the Holy Bible (like you do in your Ecc. thread) but you darn sure don't want anyone to tell you what they are. That ego also comes from having a human mind.

It is good that every healthy human being has their own mind. The problem begins when humans want to tie their own experience of having a mind to ideas like "God".

It is like a German being proud of being a German. Nothing wrong with that, unless they want to tie their pride in being a German to what was written about Hitler.

And, yes, the LORD GOD as written about in the Holy Bible was much WORSE than Hitler!

Why is this so hard for caring people like you to understand?

-- posted by HeadZenCards

» paper_turtle - Savages By Nature

In response to Savages By Nature posted by HeadZenCards:

Because God is not mind in the way that knowing the capitals of the world, or even the price of tea in China is mind.

God is mind in the way you "know" you love your wife, in the way you "know" that love is a good thing.

You can't prove your contentions any more than I can prove mine--but that's not the point. I don't understand why people can't get THAT.

All your words are like a child standing on the play ground saying "Is not." And another child says, "Is too." So what?

peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» Brian Tubbs - Infants

In response to Infants posted by HeadZenCards:

The Bible does not give a specific age for a couple of reasons - one of which (I believe) is the one you're talking about. It would be savage and evil for a human being to justify killing an infant BEFORE that infant reaches the age of accountability.

The other reason is because the point of accountability varies from person to person. It's not based on age, but mental capacity and awareness.