Protestantism

» Migisi - Reagan

In response to Reagan posted by paper_turtle:

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Sorry, can't make myself say "esteem" and "Reagan" in the same sentence.
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Me either. Reaganomics promptly put us in the poor house.

-- posted by Migisi

» Brian Tubbs - Bringing this back

I have a basic question for my liberal friends here....

Do you believe that the government should do what it needs to do (including the raising of taxes) to take care of the basic needs of those in poverty, ill health, etc.?

Do you believe this government assistance should be extended even to those able-bodied individuals who have declined to get the education, job training, skills training needed to be able to provide for themselves?

What do you think of the saying: "Them that don't work, don't eat"? (Assuming that we're talking about able-bodied people).

» redback - JFK

In response to JFK posted by pink101:

As an outsider:

My recollection of JFK was he was inspirational to the aspirational needs of the common folk. Who knows what intrinsic value that has in the scheme of puting 'food' on the US 'table'. I also recall the death of Martin Luther King being of far greater moment, affecting me more.
Every so often I get the impression the main drive is a reaction against the incumbent President. Whoever was the last revered one, was before my time, I think.

But this is a tardy response if we shift now to the reelative motivation of the unemployed who all need to be tarred with the same brush...or not. I think our system is clumsy still but getting close. It's a cradle to grave system now being weaned off the welfare mentality. No gain, no pain.

-- posted by redback

» paper_turtle - Bringing this back

In response to Bringing this back posted by BrianTubbs:

Do you believe that the government should do what it needs to do (including the raising of taxes) to take care of the basic needs of those in poverty, ill health, etc.?
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Yes, definitely. However, I think the tax laws need to be changed so that the wealthy are not able to avoid paying a more equitable amount. Current tax laws place a heavy burden on the middle class.
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Do you believe this government assistance should be extended even to those able-bodied individuals who have declined to get the education, job training, skills training needed to be able to provide for themselves?
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What do you think of the saying: "Them that don't work, don't eat"? (Assuming that we're talking about able-bodied people).
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There are many educated people with a good work ethic who can't get a job. And many people are willing to work but they don't stand a chance of getting a job because they lack dentures, glasses or hearing aids. In rural areas people without a car may also be unable to work even though they would really like to (and no, car pooling is not always an option).
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Beyond that, though, you need to understand that those who have been born into poverty have been taught helplessness. They don't know any better. The cynical view that they are simply milking the system does not reflect the reality of their lives. We don't motivate them to get a job by forcing them to starve.
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I live in an economically depressed area. I have been on welfare. I know people in poverty--and if I can ever get a job I would be working with people in poverty. The opinions I have expressed reflect the thinking of a large number of people (not just idealistic saints, but people who are, so to speak, "in the trenches").
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» pink101 - Bringing this back

Do you believe that the government should do what it needs to do (including the raising of taxes) to take care of the basic needs of those in poverty, ill health, etc.?
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Yes, for sure, without any doubts.
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Do you believe this government assistance should be extended even to those able-bodied individuals who have declined to get the education, job training, skills training needed to be able to provide for themselves?
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Yes, but, some explanations are necessary. Education is important.
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What do you think of the saying: "Them that don't work, don't eat"? (Assuming that we're talking about able-bodied people).
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It's a biblical injunction. That was the idea behind the starvation that took place in the Nazi Concentration Camps during World War II. The slogan on the gate was, "Work makes Free". Prisoners that refused to work for whatever reason, were refused food. They were starved to death.
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-- posted by pink101

» pink101 - JFK

In response to JFK posted by redback:
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These are "what if" situations. The "what if" here is "What if RFK had become president? Would an investigation into the assassination of his Brother have uncovered the gulty?"
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I think that would have been almost a certainty. The world would be a different place today.
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Far different.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Nazis?

In response to Bringing this back posted by pink101:

Pink, good grief. You're right, but you're citing a twisted misapplication of the principle in order to discredit the principle itself. The Nazis were out to de-humanize, exploit, and ultimately exterminate the Jews. I hardly see that as a relevant example to the principle of "Them that dont' work, don't eat." You're reaching for provocative, exaggerated straws.

A better and much more PERTINENT example would be Jamestown - which is celebrating its 400th this year. Remember John Smith?

Any Captain John Smith fans here????

» Brian Tubbs - Bringing this back

In response to Bringing this back posted by paper_turtle:

I like your posting here, PT. Nicely expressed. The area my family and I live in now is also fairly depressed. A lot of people being foreclosed on or evicted because they can't make house payments. Joblessness. Run-down homes. And so on. It's a dramatic difference from suburban Northern Virginia - where we moved from.

» pink101 - Nazis?

In response to Nazis? posted by BrianTubbs:
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There was much more to it than that.
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If you're familiar with the history of those "work" camps, you know that they were places where the prisoners were forced to labor on behalf of the German War Effort.
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During a time when food warehouses and farming facilities were destroyed in bombing raids and food came to be so scarce and such a matter of critical issue, priorities were set on how the availble food would be rationed: soldiers, war workers, mothers, children, and those people in concentration camps who were productively working on behalf of the Third Reich--after they were fed, whatever was left over was made available to the protesters. As soldiers weren't being well fed, it was unconscienceable that some one who would not work in a concentration camp should be fed. So, they starved to death. The slogan was, "Work makes free." It's a biblical injunction--you referenced it in your post.
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What's left to say? Were the Germans correct?
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-- posted by pink101

» paper_turtle - Bringing this back (Phil)

In response to Bringing this back posted by pink101:
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Brian asked:
What do you think of the saying: "Them that don't work, don't eat"? (Assuming that we're talking about able-bodied people).
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Phil responded:
It's a biblical injunction.
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Where did/how do you get that?
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle